QUESTION ABOUT BENDING A SIDESTAND...?

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askdoctorday

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Hello all- so, my '68 Cdo has a new/old sidestand from a Triumph. Looks great, works great. BUT I would like a slight SLIGHT bit more 'lean' to the bike when at rest. Mostly because when I get up and kickstart my high compression motor I have to really get after it, and a few times I have almost pitched the bike over to the right on my follow-through. So here's the question: If I remove the sidestand leg and heat it with a torch enough to bend it very slightly, do I then need to harden it somehow to make sure it remains solid and sturdy enough? I am no metallurgist, but I think the process is to get it very hot then immerse it in cold water. Any and all wisdom is appreciated- I know you guys will know how to do this properly. And please feel free to tell me if this is the totally wrong approach. Thanks!
 
starting the bike on the side stand isn't recommended - but its a good way to snap the lug on the frame if thats yer into

- i do mine on center stand, but some feel this isn't that great either and do it in mid air with engine immediately after compression stroke - but at 165 lbs i need a little stability

if you have stock shifter setup etc - RGM makes an extended kicker that makes it easier to kick over - i have one and its great , but interferes with rear sets
 
You don't need to heat it. I had exactly the same issue. Take the stand to anyone with a one of those small presses that uses a hand-operated hydraulic jack for power. Lay the stand across a couple of steel blocks and apply pressure at the center of the bend. It will straighten right out and work perfectly. Took maybe 10 seconds to straighten, if that! Of course, if you continue to start the bike on the side stand, it will eventually bend again.
 
Before we go giving advise are you all sure you know the stand we are talking about, here's one :
QUESTION ABOUT BENDING A SIDESTAND...?

Is this the stand and mount you have on your bike? Your stand is not made of high carbon steel so heating and quenching is going to do nothing. And you could use a cold bend or a hot one but that is a judgment call that we would need a picture to tell really.
 
Thanks for the replies. Mine WAS the original stand you pictured. I have since replaced it with a Triumph part that still has the "U" at the top, but is slightly longer than the Norton I had. The stand is now TOO straight, that is, it is not bent but just about a quarter inch too long and the bike stands up too straight. I would prefer to always use the centerstand, but mine is fouled up and needs replacement- next item I replace. Regardless, I want to make a slight bend towards the bottom of the sidestand to allow the bike a slight bit more lean. So, I guess I will heat it, bend it slightly, then no need to quench, just let it cool. Thanks for the advice!
 
Before bending that stand, I would consider the geometry of how the stand will lay against the frame when in the "riding" position.... You sure don't want the stand hanging out in the wind when you ride, catching your pants leg and scraping the inside of your leg. It might take a pretty serious bend to get the additional lean you are looking for.

I lowered a dual sport Suzuki and it then sat a little too upright for me. The easiest solution in that case was to cut a 1.25" section out of the base section of the stand and re-weld the foot back on..... You can take relatively small pieces of 0.25" plywood and stack them up such that you can roll the bike up on top of the plywood stacks...... the stand will rest on the ground. When you get the lean you want, measure the thickness of the stacks and that will be a good approximation of how much to remove from the stand.... Might not be the solution for you, but I was very pleased with the outcome.

$0.02,
Rod
 
If he says he has a '68, it is probably a frame stand like norbsa shows in the picture with a Triu*** brace. I never had a centre stand on my '69 and always had to start it on the 'prop stand'. Seems to me that the kickstarter is on the other side and thus if you put all the force on the other side of the bike while starting it is not that bad on the prop stand. It tends to push the bike towards the left when starting. Bottom line is, I never had a problem with it and my original prop stand still seems good, you just need to be aware of what your are doing and not stress the stand too much. The early short braces always required a 1xsomething to put under it so it didn't lean too much anyhow, carry one with you. The first time I got mine out last fall, my wife thought it was going to fall over. Even with the early centre stands being on the cradle, there is a lot different stuff going on too. If it's an easy starter, it probably won't matter much, just my opinion.

Dave
69S
 
Thanks Dave- yes, it's exactly that early stand pictured, and yes, the two reasons I swapped it were that 1) it's short to start with, and 2) whoever the knucklehead was that owned the bike before THIS knucklehead (me), he managed to damage the bottom end, cut it off, weld it poorly, and attach some kind of POS plate to it. The weld is a real mess. That plus years of wear made it lean waaay too far to the left and very unsteady. This Triumph stand is just the right shape, easy to grab with a boot, and swings out beautifully. I just want a couple of degrees more lean, so a small bend of maybe a quarter inch down at the bottom should do it. Really just increasing the bend that's already there. My bike is a four kick starter when ice cold, and a one kicker when warmed up. But man, you really gotta stand on it to kick it through. The gentleman who did some work on it for me is an old dirt track racer (Sonny Nutter) and a great guy- and he even commented on the compression and how much effort it requires. Sure does put out the power though- in every upshift it feels like the hand of God pushing me in the back! Lots of fun :)

Thanks for all the help guys- ejd
 
askdoctorday said:
Hello all- so, my '68 Cdo has a new/old sidestand from a Triumph. Looks great, works great. BUT I would like a slight SLIGHT bit more 'lean' to the bike when at rest. Mostly because when I get up and kickstart my high compression motor I have to really get after it, and a few times I have almost pitched the bike over to the right on my follow-through. So here's the question: If I remove the sidestand leg and heat it with a torch enough to bend it very slightly, do I then need to harden it somehow to make sure it remains solid and sturdy enough? I am no metallurgist, but I think the process is to get it very hot then immerse it in cold water. Any and all wisdom is appreciated- I know you guys will know how to do this properly. And please feel free to tell me if this is the totally wrong approach. Thanks!
Click to expand...


You will be able to bend the stand a few degrees no problem at all, but maybe a better option would be to fit a valve lifter so that the bike was easier to kick over in the first place?
 
Its nice to have a hydraulic press but you can bend items of this size with a decent vice and three bolts. or at a pinch slip a large tube over the end and find a strong point like a gate post and pintle to bend against. bend it cold and it will retain its original strength.

BTW I start my 850 astride off the stand, seems natural to me.
 
That s a completely different stand than mine. Mine is much longer and with a tang on the botton that is bent out so you can push it down with your foot while seated on the bike. I hadn't realized they were different through the years. After bending mine "straight," the bike sits at a nice, slight angle, not the "almost falling over" lean that it had before.
 
Yeah Mike, that's the later stand with the "wire" sticking out that you grab with your boot to extend it. But the later stands that I have seen also differ at the top- it doesn't have the "U" connection to the frame bracket. I bought a stand on eBay that turned out to be a later marque, and had to re-sell it 'cuz the top was different. I think I will just follow the wisdom here and bolt the stand in the vise with three bolts- that should work for the amount I need. And since I am bending an existing bend just a little more, it should be fine.

Wow, no shortage of good advice here is there! I pose a simple question and get a whole think tank of replies! Thanks-
 
Hi
If your bike is well turned you should have no problems with starting it without using your side stand, I have my 850 motor in a Wideline Featherbed frame and have never had a stand on the bike at all in the 31 years its been this way, it has just gone through a comlete rebuild, the motor is tight and high compression and with the Joe Hunt maggie I have no problems with starting it first kick, just get it on top of compression and give it a full swing on the kicker and if this is not working for you means you aren't getting your starting postion right...

When I first brought my 74 850 new I was only 17 years old, 5'8"skinny little shit, at first I used the stand but once I got use to getting the kick and pistons in the right postion it is just so easy, but carbies and timing must be right or close enough at all times, I have seen Nortons fall over with poeple using their side stands trying to start them not a good move in my way of thinking, I have also kick my bike over in bare foot when working on it and to lazy to get my boots out, but don't do this often...

But if you have to bend your stand, do it cold and bend it a little further as it will spring back to its nomal postion...

Hope this helps
 
Ashman,
Yes, I have seen people that can sit on the seat and kick the motor over with only their leg muscle. I, however, have never been one of those people, and I consider my legs to be fairly strong. Granted when the bike is in tune, the carbs set up properly and a good ignition system, it only takes getting it past the first compression and then the motor helps you with the rest of the starting, I have felt and done that. I have always had to get up on both pegs, get it just through compression, and then give it both barrels, with my weight hopefully carrying through the second compression unless it is already firing. My muscle will never get through the second compression if it is not firing. It's like hitting a brick wall.

There was an Italian video some time past on the forum that showed a whole bunch of people starting their Nortons with loafers on. Made it look easy, but my starts have rarely been like that. I do have to admit that the first time I started it after rebuilding, I was very surprised how easily it started. Not at all like pushing it over without any ignition. Hopefully this will continue.

I'm not sure about the compression release things. I had one on a single 500 BSA and all it seemed to do was make it easier to push it over compression on the starting stroke. I never used it.

Then there's comnoz who starts it with his arm.

Dave
69S
 
someone find that vid that was posted here a few months ago with everyone kicking it sitting on the seat in gym shoes....
 
DogT said:
Ashman,
I'm not sure about the compression release things. I had one on a single 500 BSA and all it seemed to do was make it easier to push it over compression on the starting stroke. I never used it.
Dave
69S
Click to expand...

FWIW had one on a BSA 441 Victor and it worked really well for one kick easy starting if it was cracked JUST right, enough to lower compression slightly...
 
Hey Dave

You look like you have long legs in your pic sitting on your bike, should make it easyer to kick it over, as my legs are shorter, but like I say its all in the swing of the kick starter and where the the pistions are sittingand every think else sorted, if you go back a few months you will see me starting my Norton on the first kick is the video and I was full of piss at the time 15 cans ao strong aussie beer, it started first time after 12 years and I didn't put that much effort into it...

Ashley
 
Odd how a simple post can take off at a tangent, its gone from a stand post to a starting one.

However I am a 60yo boy who was brought up on big singles including BSA B50 and Husqvarna 450 motocross bikes.
I have in my shed along with the Commando a BSA DBD34 Gold Star engined Norbsa, now that is hard to kick over!
Its all about getting the pistons over tdc and then a good swing to build flywheel speed to carry it over compression.
I have seen Commando starting clips on utube and cannot understand how anyone can take so long to start his motorbike.
 
Ashman,
I'm not sure about the compression release things. I had one on a single 500 BSA and all it seemed to do was make it easier to push it over compression on the starting stroke. I never used it.
Dave
69S
Click to expand...

Thats exactly how its meant to be used, once over TDC a piston in a single has 1 1/2+ revs before it meets compression again, plenty for a good kick to get energy in the flywheel to get it through compression. I rarely use mine but still do not kick until the piston is just over TDC, the compression release is still used for clearing a flooded cyclinder, just kick with it pulled and the ignition on, once the excess fuel is cleared you get a nice backfire.
 
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