Quaife boxes...

Fast Eddie · Aug 6, 2015

Chaps,

Are the latest iteration of Quaife 5 speed road box sold by Hemmings of the revised selector type or still based on the old type?

Does anyone one know much about them, their pros and cons, design features, etc?

Has anyone used one? Any feedback?

They are SO much more reasonably priced than the TTI option and one would assume that the combined experiences of Hemmings and Quaife would result in a sound product for Nortons.

worntorn · Aug 6, 2015

What is the cost of the Quaife box for the Commando Nigel?

I bought a Quaife/Surtees 5 speed for my Vincent Special, probably same as you had in your Godet bike.
It is beautifully made and shifts like a dream. Good for 200 HP according to Rod Quaife.

I agree, if it's made by Quaife it is about as good as it gets.

Glen

Fast Eddie · Aug 6, 2015

worntorn said:
What is the cost of the Quaife box for the Commando Nigel?

I bought a Quaife/Surtees 5 speed for my Vincent Special, probably same as you had in your Godet bike.
It is beautifully made and shifts like a dream. Good for 200 HP according to Rod Quaife.

I agree, if it's made by Quaife it is about as good as it gets.

Glen

The full internals are £1750 inc the 20% VAT charge (or there abouts). The TTI is over £3600...

I also have a Quaife in my 'stock' Vin and agree it shifts beautifully. At times I used to think the stock box may have been a better choice. But the 5 speed is just lovely when you're pressing on a bit!

Did yours go straight in Glen, or did it need 'finessing' ?

Bottom line for me is that at nearly £4000 the TTI is not really an option. But I do lust after the shift action and gear spacings I have in the Vin... in the Commando !

johntickle · Aug 6, 2015

The Quaife 5 speed gearkit still uses the camplate. The gears are quite narrow, not suitable for high torque engines.
The Quaife 6 speed gearbox uses the drum but is not available with kickstart shaft. The price is similar to the TTI gearboxes.
All TTI gearboxes (4 speed extra heavy duty, 5 speed, 5 speed extra heavy duty, 6 speed) can be supplied with kickstart shaft.
The "cheap" option is the Nourish gearbox shell and mainshaft combined with Triumph 5 speed internals, inner and outer cover (as used by Doug Mc Rae).

worntorn · Aug 6, 2015

Installation required a bit of metal pruning but I put that down to some inaccuracies in the new Molnar cases rather than a Quaife problem.

As far as personal preference the road ratios, both the Commando and Vincent 4 speeds are preferable to a five speed, but presumably the Quaife 5 speed can handle a hotted up Commando, whereas a standard box is risky.

Does Quaife offer a high duty four speed for the Commando by chance?

Also, for John Tickle, are new Nourish boxes still available?

Glen

lcrken · Aug 6, 2015

I've used Quaife gearsets and complete gearboxes for several decades now, and as much as I'm a fan of them, I have to say that at the moment he TTI gearbox appears to be the best choice out there. The price is comparable to that for a new complete Quaife with drum selector, but it sounds like the TTI is significantly sturdier. The standard Quaife 5-speed cluster is actually pretty fragile behind a pumped up Commando. I had good luck with them, but only by inspecting them regularly, and replacing gears and shafts as needed before they failed, although I did have a couple of failures anyway. Quaife did do a close ratio 4-speed, available with both road and race first gear pairs available, which was actually stronger than the 5-speed (wider gears), but I don't know if they are still available.

Ken

cjandme · Aug 6, 2015

lcrken said:
......... The standard Quaife 5-speed cluster is actually pretty fragile behind a pumped up Commando...... Ken

This seems to be the general consensus Nigel. Matchless wrote about how good the TTI was on his 920 build thread a while back, however I do understand about the high price being difficult to rationalize.....easy for us to spend your money though, right! :wink:

Matchless · Aug 7, 2015

Nigel, you know you want one. Do you have children? Sell them & buy the best!. I've had the TTI 'box apart to change the selector drum, as they sent it with the wrong shift pattern. The whole affair looks sturdy & well thought out.
Martyn.
P.S. Unfortunately I won't be at Beezumph due to work commitments.

Fast Eddie · Aug 7, 2015

Matchless said:
Nigel, you know you want one. Do you have children? Sell them & buy the best!. I've had the TTI 'box apart to change the selector drum, as they sent it with the wrong shift pattern. The whole affair looks sturdy & well thought out.
Martyn.
P.S. Unfortunately I won't be at Beezumph due to work commitments.

I wouldn't have expected anything other from you Martyn!
And I do believe you, I'm sure the TTI box is a nice bit of kit. But it nevertheless remains out of budget for the foreseeable future for my uses.
Looks like I'll be sticking with stock !

Brooking 850 · Aug 7, 2015

Nigel, I have a TTI in my race bike, as do a lot of the guys racing in NZ with classics, I to had to change the barrel for the shift selection as they supplied the wrong pattern .
It took very little time to change once they sent the correct one, very sturdy unit, available with or with out a KS mechanism, also i 5 or 6 speed.
The NZD has devalued somewhat so should be in your favour right now with GBP or USD.

Sell two children!!!
Regards Mike

Dances with Shrapnel · Aug 7, 2015

I've raced with a stock box, a Nourish conversion and the TTI's. I know little to nothing about the Quaife (AMC) alternatives and I am sure the new Quaife stuff is pretty good.

From my perspective, assuming you are going to race (abuse) the box, consider the hidden costs (and likelihood) of a failed gear box:

Sunk cost of race entry fees
Sunk cost of travel expenses to and from the race track
Medical costs if the bike tosses you as a result of the failed gear box.
Costs to others if a failed box oils the track
Cost to recover the bike and rebuild/replace/repair the gear box

Furthermore, with a TTI there is no need for the costs of an outrigger bearing as is usually used on the stock box, the Nourish conversion and possible the Quaife option. On the other hand, even a stock AMC box with a few minor internal modifications and upgrades, can be fairly durable for racing; even without an outrigger bearing.

Not trying to sell anything or convince anyone here, only sharing my perspective of the hidden costs with a decision as I have been down this path before.

Fast Eddie · Aug 7, 2015

Brooking 850 said:
Nigel, I have a TTI in my race bike, as do a lot of the guys racing in NZ with classics, I to had to change the barrel for the shift selection as they supplied the wrong pattern .
It took very little time to change once they sent the correct one, very sturdy unit, available with or with out a KS mechanism, also i 5 or 6 speed.
The NZD has devalued somewhat so should be in your favour right now with GBP or USD.

Sell two children!!!
Regards Mike

But that's just it Mike, and it pisses me off, the NZ and Oz dollars have both plummeted against the pound recently, and what has happened to the prices of things like FA heads here in the UK...? Yup, they've gone up!!

Brooking 850 · Aug 8, 2015

Hi Nigel, well you could feel sorry for me then as I still need some components from the USA and the UK to complete the next motor. Ouch!!!!
What is TTI asking for a g/box now?
Regards Mike

Fast Eddie · Aug 8, 2015

Brooking 850 said:
Hi Nigel, well you could feel sorry for me then as I still need some components from the USA and the UK to complete the next motor. Ouch!!!!
What is TTI asking for a g/box now?
Regards Mike

I do feel for you Mike as I'm sure exchange rate changes ARE passed on when the change is that way!

A 5 speed box with kick start is £3000+ vat. So £3600 + some postage etc.

Putting that into perspective, a Maney 1007 kit is under £3500...

acotrel · Aug 8, 2015

My 6 speed TTI box also arrived with the wrong selector drum. So I rang Bruce and did the swap. I actually tried to ride the bike with the wrong direction shift. I would have thought my 850 would stall if I tried to take off in top gear. I slipped the clutch and almost stuck the bike into the fence of the pits at Winton. Dumb and dumber ?

kingcole · Aug 8, 2015

It is good to know that there are a lot of Quaife experts around so maybe I can change the subject slightly to see if anyone can help me. I have a 1972 750 Commando which I bought in 1976 fitted with a quaife 5 speed box , it did sterling service commuting 90 miles a day for eight years mostly on motorway with no problems whatsoever with the gearbox. After thirty years of being abandoned a restoration is now in progress and everything is up and running and tuned in except the gearbox which when I tested the bike out and selected first gear it stuck in and was really difficult get out again, second to fifth work perfectly well. So before I commence a strip down of the gearbox can anyone tell me what I should be looking at or for.
Kingcole

lcrken · Aug 8, 2015

Have you done anything at all to the gearbox before trying it out, like maybe draining and replacing the oil? Have you had it apart at all as part of the restoration? Or is it just as it was parked 30 years ago? If the latter, the oil may have dried out and turned to a really heavy sludge in some areas.

Ken

pommie john · Aug 9, 2015

Fast Eddie said:
And I do believe you, I'm sure the TTI box is a nice bit of kit. But it nevertheless remains out of budget for the foreseeable future for my uses.
Looks like I'll be sticking with stock !

I've got a Quaife 5 speed lying around the workshop. I took it out when I converted the race bike to road bike ( the 5 speed doesn't have a kickstart ). I might be persuaded to sell it, but goodness knows how much postage from Australia would be .

Fast Eddie · Aug 9, 2015

pommie john said:
Fast Eddie said:

And I do believe you, I'm sure the TTI box is a nice bit of kit. But it nevertheless remains out of budget for the foreseeable future for my uses.
Looks like I'll be sticking with stock !

Click to expand...

I've got a Quaife 5 speed lying around the workshop. I took it out when I converted the race bike to road bike ( the 5 speed doesn't have a kickstart ). I might be persuaded to sell it, but goodness knows how much postage from Australia would be .

Nice of you to offer John, trouble is I also want it for a road bike!

But please tell us about your Quaife experience John: how long did you race it for? What's troubles did it give? Do you concours with the current consensus that they're troublesome, or can you re-dress the balance somewhat?

pommie john · Aug 9, 2015

Fast Eddie said:
pommie john said:

Fast Eddie said:

And I do believe you, I'm sure the TTI box is a nice bit of kit. But it nevertheless remains out of budget for the foreseeable future for my uses.
Looks like I'll be sticking with stock !

Click to expand...

I've got a Quaife 5 speed lying around the workshop. I took it out when I converted the race bike to road bike ( the 5 speed doesn't have a kickstart ). I might be persuaded to sell it, but goodness knows how much postage from Australia would be .

Click to expand...

Nice of you to offer John, trouble is I also want it for a road bike!

But please tell us about your Quaife experience John: how long did you race it for? What's troubles did it give? Do you concours with the current consensus that they're troublesome, or can you re-dress the balance somewhat?

Nothing ever broke or wore out on it. I can't remember how long I used it for. I bought the cluster secondhand ( almost new) and found a used shell to build it into. I must have used it for over 15 years although I never did many races in a season.

The only hassle I had was a false neutral between 4th and 5th I sometimes used to hit. I gave the box to a local guru who found nothing wrong, then he looked at my home made rearsets and blamed them

Quaife boxes...

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