Prices gone up - of course you all knew that!! BUT

Prices rise over time on everything.
Personally I think many vintage bikes have been far undervalued for far to long.

Sure TV lets more people see what is out there and increases the demand, but is that a bad thing? This also is not something new.
I HATE when people in the hobby start talking like the fun is all over and there is nothing left. This is very much not the case.
Are the days of $500 running bikes listed on eBay over? Yep. Are there more people hunting for deals on CL every day forcing people to move fasters? Yep.
But so what? Is that really a bad thing?

For me I think it has just changed what is interesting and how people find stuff. When I first got into vintage bikes I could not afford a Norton, so I bought a CB750. But now I am finding that CB750s are more expensive so I have moved into Nortons! Of the three I now own only one was listed in the "traditional way" the other two were found by networking and meeting people in real life. In my eyes this has made hunting for stuff much better and forced the keyboard jockeys and other clowns to a different end of the room, and I am okay with that. I very much enjoy who I meet and how I meet them.

Also I think that people that are looking at things purely as an investment need to be way more flexible. You cant only want one snap shot in time AND control prices. Meaning you cant try to only buy 70s British bikes AND want to keep prices the same. To me as time goes on the prices of 70s bikes will always go up. The rate that happens will change, but the guy that bought the $19k Commando didnt pay to much. He might have to wait a bit until that price is "average" but it will happen. IF your only focus is to keep playing with vintage bikes at a price point then you need to change your interest. This might be harder to do and stick with British bikes, but there are still untapped markets out there.

I see the bargains being 90s superbikes. Have you seen the performance and tech you can get for $3500? It is crazy. Lets not forget that "vintage" isnt just the 70s. Stuff made in 1990 is 25+ years old now!
Smart money is in early R1s, RC51s ect (yeah those are 2000s, so just "old used bikes") and some of the amazing offerings from Ducati and BMW from the 80s.

jaguar said:

Have you seen the performance and tech you can get for $3500? It is crazy.

Click to expand...

No joke. Decent 1999 Kawasaki ZRX1100 for $2,500 can do 125 till it runs out of gas, then keep doing it after you top off the tank, and keep doing it till you can't stay awake any more. Plus, they'll eat Commandos with all but the best riders on them (and well they ought, with all that tech PLUS 250-350 extra ccs).

$2,500 will barely get you a non-running Commando rolling project.



OR



I know, apples and oranges.

I don't see all British 70's bikes going up in value, at Kempton autojumble yesterday there was a T140V in good condition for £4700 though not sure if it sold though, earlier BSA twins prices are also much where they were 2 or 3 years ago. In 20 years time there will be many who don't recognize Norton and thus will not be interested in buying. Looks the like the price path will follow the that of the old round tank and flat tankers went through in the 70's and 80's. When all the investment hoarders, currently buying more than one Norton at a time (some buying in double figures) pop their clogs or need care home fees - then it will be bargain time again.

Some buyers jumping on this bandwagon must also be clueless, as I was recently speaking to someone who had allegedly been sold a '71 Commando, and as things progressed It did not sound right so I asked 'is the engine lent forward or is it upright'' upright cam the answer. It seems some are just buying anything with Norton on the tank at the moment.

"I see the bargains being 90s superbikes. Have you seen the performance and tech you can get for $3500? It is crazy. Lets not forget that "vintage" isnt just the 70s. Stuff made in 1990 is 25+ years old now!
Smart money is in early R1s, RC51s ect (yeah those are 2000s, so just "old used bikes") and some of the amazing offerings from Ducati and BMW from the 80s. "

I agree (in general). I have a 1997 900 SS Ducati - in very excellent condition. I've had it from new. I could get nothing for it today but in another 20 years I think it will be seen as a great example of the period.

I'm not selling it anyway but you could replace it right now for 25% of the original price. ST2 s are the same and for a sports touring bike these are really excellent. The two valve Desmos are not too expensive to service.

jaguar said:

I see the bargains being 90s superbikes. Have you seen the performance and tech you can get for $3500? It is crazy. Lets not forget that "vintage" isnt just the 70s. Stuff made in 1990 is 25+ years old now!

Click to expand...

This is interesting although any time we discuss anything other than Norton's people get upset.

The part that strikes me is the "disposable society" we live in. In motorcycles if it's not the best or the fastest it becomes worthless very fast. This happened to some extent in the 60's and 70's but some of us still cherished our bikes and kept them or at least still felt they were valuable.

There are amazing bikes that can be had very cheap.

If the carbs need cleaning on an early sportbike, you can have them for a song because it costs more to get them serviced than they are worth. People don't take the time to learn how to fix their bikes anymore.

Many of us came from a time when you had to understand how to fix your bike or you couldn't ride.

Come to think of it, owning a Norton is still like that.

dennisgb said:

If the carbs need cleaning on an early sportbike, you can have them for a song because it costs more to get them serviced than they are worth. People don't take the time to learn how to fix their bikes anymore. Many of us came from a time when you had to understand how to fix your bike or you couldn't ride.

Click to expand...

BAZINGO!

You hit the nail on the thumb.

In all fairness, I think there are some young bucks that still like to work on their own bikes. But to me that was always the mystique of the Norton. Not everyone wants to do it and it gets less and less or so it appears to this fogie.

I can honestly say that I would much rather ride than turn wrenches.

Mark said:

I can honestly say that I would much rather ride than turn wrenches.

Click to expand...

These days I feel the same. When I wasn't married and didn't have kids, I didn't mind nerding out all weekend on stuff. In the darkroom or the garage for 12 hr stretches, I loved it.

Now, at 52 with 2 yo twins, I have more parts than time.

If everyone on this forum starts selling their bikes or spares that they don't need for well under their market value we will soon see prices tumble who's first?

baz said:

If everyone on this forum starts selling their bikes or spares that they don't need for well under their market value we will soon see prices tumble who's first?

Click to expand...

As you suggested it, I think it's only fair we allow you to go first. :wink:

Hmmmmmm doesn't seem such a good idea now !!!!! Ha ha ,its a bit sour grapes for me most of my stuff went 5 years ago divorce/mortgage endowment shortfall etc etc I kept hold of my commando and that's how its staying ,god knows what my kids will do with it when I snuff it maybe one of you lot will end up with it!!!!

If I can't get a project at a reasonable price with paperwork by the spring, then I will build a MK3 based thing from new parts where possible, it may work out cheaper when finished than the 5 figure sums that they seem to be selling for these days. Anyone got spare set of switch gear and wheels for sale to get me started!!

Speaking of building new from parts, has anyone considered this and costed it out?
Maybe you could get a discount from Andover as a publicity project.
....by the time many of us were done with out projects it may well not cost much more anyway.

Onder said:

Speaking of building new from parts, has anyone considered this and costed it out?
Maybe you could get a discount from Andover as a publicity project.
....by the time many of us were done with out projects it may well not cost much more anyway.

Click to expand...

Building a new bike from new parts would cost a small fortune, but if you have won the lotto or have to much money, then maybe, building a good second hand bike with new parts would be the way to go, or find a bike that hasn't had much wear and tear on it, you do still find them around.

Ashley

Madnorton said:

If I can't get a project at a reasonable price with paperwork by the spring, then I will build a MK3 based thing from new parts where possible, it may work out cheaper when finished than the 5 figure sums that they seem to be selling for these days. Anyone got spare set of switch gear and wheels for sale to get me started!!

Click to expand...

I can assure you, you will be better off buying a rough roller or even better, a runner.

You just can't believe how a double-handful of small bits and hardware will cost almost the same amount as the equivalent weight of gold (or, at least, silver)

Onder said:

Speaking of building new from parts, has anyone considered this and costed it out?
Maybe you could get a discount from Andover as a publicity project.
....by the time many of us were done with out projects it may well not cost much more anyway.

Click to expand...

Figure 5X what it would cost to buy something in decent shape and spiff it up or 3x the cost of a garage queen.

johnm said:

"I see the bargains being 90s superbikes. Have you seen the performance and tech you can get for $3500? It is crazy. Lets not forget that "vintage" isnt just the 70s. Stuff made in 1990 is 25+ years old now!
Smart money is in early R1s, RC51s ect (yeah those are 2000s, so just "old used bikes") and some of the amazing offerings from Ducati and BMW from the 80s. "

I agree (in general). I have a 1997 900 SS Ducati - in very excellent condition. I've had it from new. I could get nothing for it today but in another 20 years I think it will be seen as a great example of the period.

I'm not selling it anyway but you could replace it right now for 25% of the original price. ST2 s are the same and for a sports touring bike these are really excellent. The two valve Desmos are not too expensive to service.

Click to expand...

Ducati 900ss's are a bargain here, I bought a blinged up 900ss with Nitron shock and other goodies, then picked up a 900 Superlight with 41mm Flat slides and Termi exhausts, asset stripped the 900ss and sold it for not much less than I paid for it.
Had a later 900ss but the 90's ones are nicer to ride. Briefly had a ST4 S but didn't bond with the water cooled engine and too much fairing.
Going to Puke in Feb?

I think that every nitch thinks they are unique. In reality it is the same story every time.
People DO still work on their bikes. Is it the same grease covered image from the 50s? Nope, not people tweak things with a lap top or iPhone.

Sure people seek the fastest, but there are still people loyal to a brand. Same as always.
If you talk to the SOHC CB750 guys they will say that Nortons became worthless in 1969, but if you talk to a Kawasaki guy he will say a CB750 was junk as soon as the Z1 arrived!
It is what it is.

Eventually everything gets so old that only a few people keep the light lit. These people are attached to the mark for what ever reason.
Then over time people come back to things. Some times it is because they were priced out of other markets, others are reliving a youth.
Now prices start to rise.

Like someone else said, paying someone to clean the carbs on a 1997 GSXR will cost more then the bike is worth. So now is the time that people that tinker and want that experience gravitate to them. Bikes are cheap, offer good performance and are something old enough to start to be cool again.

At some point everything gets to old or costly to pay others to fix, but isn't interesting or appealing enough for others to start to work on themselves.

jaguar said:

If you talk to the SOHC CB750 guys they will say that Nortons became worthless in 1969, but if you talk to a Kawasaki guy he will say a CB750 was junk as soon as the Z1 arrived!

Click to expand...

But the wars kept going and still go on today. The manufacturer's kept improving the bikes and each year there was a better and faster motorcycle. For years the "I need the fastest and most high tech bike" consumer's kept buying them. Eventually the bottom fell out when the speed became relative and the cost was too high. How many people really need to go 200 MPH on a motorcycle?

But the mentality continues to be "disposable". The older bikes with dirty carbs sat in the shed or garage. It happened to the old Brit bikes when they closed up shop to some degree.

Today the value bikes, the ones you can pick up cheap are the old sport bikes. Technically they are still relative and light years ahead of a Norton. Water cooled, 4 valves per cylinder, 100+ HP out of a 600cc bike. Not everyone's cup of tea but interesting none the less.

They don't have the mystique of a Norton though. Norton's might be technically ancient, but they have a look and sound that hasn't really been reproduced. That's why they have gained in value. Even the young rider's today think they are cool.