PCV valve ?

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JimC said:
My experience with my 72 Combat was plumbing the PCV valve did solve the issues I was having. Leaks. As for excessive oil in the breather line, that was never a problem on my bike. Putting a PCV valve in the breather line will not exacerbate any oil breather problems that might exist. If anything, having no pressure or even a vacuum in the crankcase would lessen the chance of oil going out the breather hole.

I was referring to this article here http://www.oldbritts.com/n_c_case.html which discussess one of the problems of 1972 engines introduced when 'moving the pickup to the center of the crankcase (the lowest point) would be an improvement. This, however, was not the case, for with the counter clockwise rotation of the flywheel flinging oil to the rear and the lack of a place for oil to pool, at higher RPMs, the oil builds up in the rear of the crankcase and the scavenge pickup cavitates. This causes the engine to wetsump and starve the upper end of oil.
 
plj850 said:
JimC said:
I didn't do any mods than other what you see here.
Same here fitted the PCV in the standard breather pipe cured the irriatating small leaks immediately, notably on the tacho drive.

No mods in the cases? Also, the 90 degree barb that the arrow points to, does that come with the valve or did you fit it.
 
I put the 90° barb in. Has nothing to do with the function, only made the hose routing a little neater.
 
Thanks a lot, hopefully this valve will save some problems, and eventually i think ill buy the CNW breather.
 
Functionally, I don't think there is any difference between the XS 650 and the CNW valves, both being reed check valves. I will say that the location and mounting of the CNW is preferable. If your objective is to stop oil leaks that are coming from the crankcase being pressurized, then I'm certain the XS 650 valve will do the job as well as the CNW valve.
 
For those of you who are into the science of how things work. The latest March 2011 issue of Motorcycle Consumer news has an extensive article on Crankcase Breathing. This is a very much talked about subject in our group. Maybe the article will make things a bit clearer.


Tim_S
 
You would need a substantial pressure differential between the cranckcase and timing chest to 'hold' oil in the timing chest with the 73-74 setup.

In my case I don't think its differential pressure but the action of the timing drive flinging the oil up and holding it up there at specific rpm. I think the reed valve stops the suck and blow that would break the oil suspension, which for me nicely explains the need to pipe the valve directly into the crankcases. I've seen this oil suspension happen in an over filled high speed gearbox many years ago.

The only problem I found from this trapped oil was the timing side ran hot and the oil tank level would be on the low mark after riding at 40mph for a few miles.

Cash
 
Hmmm, I just received my second xs 650 valve and will install it high near the oil tank under the seat out of sight like the other norton.
 
JimC said:
Functionally, I don't think there is any difference between the XS 650 and the CNW valves, both being reed check valves. I will say that the location and mounting of the CNW is preferable. If your objective is to stop oil leaks that are coming from the crankcase being pressurized, then I'm certain the XS 650 valve will do the job as well as the CNW valve.
Quite true jimc also a bit cheaper I guess...
 
britbike220 said:
Hmmm, I just received my second xs 650 valve and will install it high near the oil tank under the seat out of sight like the other norton.

Works like a charm. A few hundred miles on my combat and no leaks or oil issues. Maybe its psychological, but the motor seems happier too.
 
At least for the '72 and '73 750s that have the drive side rear crank case breather, the CNW reed valve acts as a secondary scavenging pump; it acts as a positive return of oil to the tank that for whatever reason is not scavenged in the first instance. That fact distinguishes it in function from any and all of the modifications that locate a breather take off on the timing case.

Kudos too to Old Britts for bringing the fact of lost oil pressure due to the '72/'73 design to the attention of the Norton world.

Saturday I spent a few hours fabricating an adapter plate to mount the business half of an XS650 reed valve onto the back of my '73 750's drive side crank case.

It wasn't simple or easy. After removing the stock "L" breather casting from the crank case, I commenced to make the adapter plate from a piece of steel (about 3" by 2" by 3/8" thick) by drilling holes that aligned with the breather mounting bolts, the reed valve center and the reed valve's own cover plates holes. The cover plate, that's the side for the reed valve's inlet, the one with the larger 5/8" beaded edge tube on it, got abandoned and substituted by the new adapter plate.

I also had to weld up a U shaped bridge to go over the outer casing of the reed valve and through which the mounting bolts pass. The sides of the reed valve housing also had to be trimmed/cut carefully to clear the mounting bolts. The bridge gives the two bolts a purchase to clamp the reed valve and the new adapter plate to the cases. The reed valve's cover plate screws hold the reed valve to the adapter plate.

Anyway, it works quite well. No leaks. Between Saturday and today, Tuesday, she wet sumped a bit. This morning I kicked her over slowly while watching the breather return to oil tank; I made a mess; there was a gusher of oil returning be way of the breather line.

I do not really recommend doing what I have done; the project is fraught with risk of an oil leak that will cause a crash or an engine failure. The CNW method is the way to go.

I'll post some pics later.
 
Has anyone used the plain automotive type poppet valve design that fits in a grommet in the valve cover? Results? Not as sexy as a reed valve, but a snap to install... just wondering of someone else has tried it.
Like this one... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0212610484

PCV  valve ?
 
comnoz said:
concours said:
Has anyone used the plain automotive type poppet valve design that fits in a grommet in the valve cover? Results? Not as sexy as a reed valve, but a snap to install... just wondering of someone else has tried it.
Like this one... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0212610484

PCV  valve ?

An automotive PCV valve relies on manifold vacuum to operate. Not something that would work on a Norton. Jim


Well, true it's plumbed into the manifold, the function of the valve is to allow pressure to vent when present, and NOT leak vacuum when it isn't. The spring type seems quite light, the weight type wouldn't work out of position for sure. Have you tried one?
 
concours said:
comnoz said:
concours said:
Has anyone used the plain automotive type poppet valve design that fits in a grommet in the valve cover? Results? Not as sexy as a reed valve, but a snap to install... just wondering of someone else has tried it.
Like this one... http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Catal ... 0212610484

PCV  valve ?

An automotive PCV valve relies on manifold vacuum to operate. Not something that would work on a Norton. Jim


Well, true it's plumbed into the manifold, the function of the valve is to allow pressure to vent when present, and NOT leak vacuum when it isn't. The spring type seems quite light, the weight type wouldn't work out of position for sure. Have you tried one?

Can't say I have tried one.
That type of valve is designed to allow a regulated amount of air to flow when there is manifold vacuum present and to block the flow in case of backfire in the manifold to keep the flames from causing a crankcase explosion. The flow in the normal direction is through a small orfice. Not what you would want. Jim
 
Thanks for showing that, Steve.

Looks like a Dorman 80190 brake check valve.

I got one installed a couple inches from my 73's timing cover in the breather line!

Been there over a year and a half now.

Took if off a couple days ago to clean it and the lines out and blew through it one way only, still works perfectly.

I think it cost all of $8 and cured every tiny oil leak, got mine at AutoZone.

edit: I see I can pick up a couple for under $3 right now through Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new
 
How fun and mind resting it is to huff and puff, sip and suck savoring the minutia of Commandos. There is some potential power gains d/t better ring sealing. The flapper valve rpm limit had been found over a decade ago by others too. Even worse rpm limits, if functioning at all were the regular automobile PVC's, just too massive a valve to work much over idle I read. Not many will or should rev over 7000 rpm so Jim's kit is over kill with some reserves. Comnoz also revealed the friction of long stroke 89mm is physic that block power gain over 8000 rpm or so.

I've seen how well the Combat secondary bigger, higher capacity oil return works, yet also the oil all over after running a Combat in 2S cam/red zone. My current concept is its more the engine flapping apart than blow by over pressure. So if lower pressure then it draws into the cracks rather than blows out is all. No new concept there.

My Peel special gets active exhaust sucker that may even draw fresh air through head.

Here's what Trixie uses, another hand me down from past Peel. All the best Harleys fit them in pride.

http://www.3000gtvr4.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=54

PCV  valve ?
 
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