Pau Arnos

Your assessment of life balance and maybe wanting to do something else is spot on. At our age and expected shelf life we could easily spend the rest of our lives healing. It is a number line reality. On the other hand........road racing is so damn much fun.

The reactive inflation protection I have seen with race leathers all expands outward. I could see it severely injuring someone if it were designed to inflate within the confines of a race suit. There are integral suits as well as vests over suits that provide that protection.

SteveA said:

Dances, I had been concerned that it might specifically me that had fragile ribs so I appreciate knowing I am not alone. I have a little gizmo here for lung excercise, given to me by the physio in Pau, simple but useful.

Thankfully the rib popping seems to have stopped now. It was a bit disconcerting, especially when they had me on Ketamine!

I saw one of the German riders at Pau wearing a gilet that looked like it had gel inserts as well as the harder armour, my wife and I had both seen it and talked about it and thought it looked a sensible addition. I will take a look at them.

The real limitation of my current set up is space inside the two suits I have! (weight loss essential here) and that my current Dainese dorsal protector does not cover far enough out from the spine. You are going to need to be comfortable that an air bag going off isn't going to add to the general crush factor when surrounded by a suit that is too tight (again weight loss likely to be key here). That weight loss is going to need to come from a programme that includes muscle strengthening and aerobic, to help cope more with the longer races in France.

Before riding again my clothing budget will need to address some form of armoured gilet, air bag style likely to be over budget at least at first, and new helmet, boot sand gloves.

There will be a limit to how much I invest until I have established if I have the bottle to ride or not. And to assess how well my wife is coping with theh stress too. She has always been #1 helper, which she won't be able to do if she is worrying herself sick. I owe her more than that.

But, it wasn't my accident, I ran into someone else's, actuallyy 3 other people's, but I will need to be sure I am not running slow and making myself a danger for others.

We will see where we go from there. I guess I just don't feel I have done with it yet, but I need to balance it all against the fact that at most I see 3 more seasons possible, 2 more likely. And there are probably a few other things we might do a little more in our lives if I quit!

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Most times you can see an incident starting to happen long before it gets well under way. If the corner is blind and you are going fast, you can become involved before you know it. With air bags, where they are usually situated is at places where you should not stick your neck out anyway. Most race crashes are simply a slip to the deck, even when they occur at high speed. As long as you don't hit anything or roll, you are usually OK.
I have had a lot of crashes and they don't usually worry me too much. But I do realise that my age, I could end up as a wrinkly skin bag full of bone chips. Sliding to the ground is usually pretty harmless. These days I never ride with drum brakes, so I never get into the situation where the bike turns into a blur of handlebars and tank slappers. However, if it did - from experience I know I can simply cope with it. Many guys are afraid to let go of the handle bars and grab the tank. As long as you don't grab the bars again too soon, you will usually survive. Never ride a bike on which the tank is not firmly secured, nor one which does not have the hydraulic steering damper.
My racing career did not make me a good rider, but it taught me how to survive.

Alan, this is where we differ: since my first ride on a race track in early 1975 I have now had 5 track falls!

The last 14 years ago and that was the only one not from this frame!

3 of the falls were set in motion by other riders!

I am perfectly willing to accept I could learn to fall better, but I have majored in not doing it.

Chris said:

Hi Steve
Sorry to hear about your accident. Thought you might have been pushing it but sh*t coming off on oil. God thats gauling.
I found sleeping with my back against a cold radiator was the only way to get to sleep! Until I slumped!
Hope you heal quick. Lots of time, recover before you play with the bike.
All the best Chris

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Thanks Chris.

No the other guys fell off on oil, I ran into the last to fall........I was on my bike as I went over his legs then his bike.....

The oil was laid down in the 4 hour endurance race held on the Sunday morning and we were first race out Sunday afternoon. The cement dust was clear for all to see right from the formation lap, and out pretty wide and off the line most were choosing to ride. I didn't experience much by way of grip loss all weekend, clearly several did.

Sadly I was a long way from pushing it....but at least I beat the guy with one leg who was riding a 750 Honda! Now he gave me a wake up in Friday training! Brave guy.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

Your assessthinking the samement of life balance and maybe wanting to do something else is spot on. At our age and expected shelf life we could easily spend the rest of our lives healing. It is a number line reality. On the other hand........road racing is so damn much fun.

The reactive inflation protection I have seen with race leathers all expands outward. I could see it severely injuring someone if it were designed to inflate within the confines of a race suit. There are integral suits as well as vests over suits that provide that protection.

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When I started looking at the stand alone gilets (Dianese and Ixon I was thinking the same, I.e. getting injured on inflation, however I am sure they must have considered that before advertising for use with any jacket or suit. The recent 7 billion USD (yes 7 billion) suit awarded to the guy who grew boobs over there in the US recently, is the sort of thing the R&D departments would have planned for, one would have thought!
There are some good clips on YouTube.

There are 3 FIM approved systems, AlpineStars, Dianese and Ixon. They all work in a similar way, stand alone (no tether) GPS and accelerometers with an algorithm to define the trigger.

AlpineStars needs a special suit or jacket made by them. They have licenced it out, for instance BKS leathers here in the UK. It's a two fall off system, then back for service.
Dianese have their D-Air suits, they recently introduced this stand alone gilet referred to previously. This is a one fall off system then a service is required.
Ixon have the stand alone gilet previously mentioned, this is a 6 fall off system (you replace the gas bottle) then needs a service.
All 3 have been developed in MotoGP, I think this year it is a requirement for riders.

SteveA said:

In France you have to do aptitude tests and get signed off for any sport before you can participate.

I did the motorcycle racing one at 64. It is part insurance related to reduce risk and event premiums.
I don't think there is any sporting organisation in this country that would sign off on an overweight 66 year old recovering from broken ribs proposing to throw himself on the floor!
Believe you me, I won't be running anywhere, let alone throwing myself on the floor intentionally, cycling will be my exercise limit.

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If you are going to do dangerous sports then you should have the right attitude and motor cycling whether on track or on the road I regard as one of them. Good for you that you go cycling but as I mentioned on P9, learning how to fall without injuring yourself, I regard this as prevention rather than the cure, as is keeping yourself physically fit, it can only be for one person’s benefit – yourself.

For instance would you know what to do if say, you got high sided or thrown off at anywhere up to say, 80MPH?

The best thing you can do if you are crashing and are off the bike, is relax but keep your arms and legs close in front of you. Don't stick your limbs out in an attempt to save yourself and certainly do not try to get your feet under yourself and stand up while you are still moving at speed. I tend to race faster in the wet, than in the dry. If you drop off onto a wet track, there is usually not enough grip to roll you. I once fell off onto non-skid at about 90 MPH - I rolled every inch of the way, and got the shit beaten out of me. You learn as you get older.

You want to be glad that you didn’t bounce as well, if you find yourself bouncing. . . . . .

Steve A , I am the same age as you and had an off early in may this year and came away with the same damage as you body wise. Also in ICU for 5 days after a trip from the track to the local hospital.
I was credited with the win as I was leading in class for 3 of the 4 laps and it was red flagged and not rerun.

The bike was also cosmetically damaged , the worst being a bent front right fork stanchion!
My first race since then was two weekends ago (we dont race through the winter with the NZCMRR) and as much as I was told to take it easy , once the red starting lights went out, there was very little thought as to what happened in May.

I did come away with a 2nd and a 1st on the Saturday and the same results on the Sunday.

So once you are over your hurt, 12 weeks usually with ribs, you will probably find the spirit to repair the bike and race again.

A lot of my race mates wear the LEATT body armour under their leathers, I have a back protector and a separate chest protector , both of which are mandatory for our racing here in NZ.

Its usually your arm tucked under your body that breaks ribs I am told.

Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Regards Mike

When I had that stupid crash at Winton, I did not race for a lot of years afterward. If there are people racing who would do something like that in front of you, it is not worth being there. I should have been ready for him. One day we were practising at Calder, I was passing him going into a fairly fast corner and he sat up and ran me straight off into the escape road. He said he'd had enough.
He knows what he did both times - and so do I !
Watch out for people who have ego. An ego needs to be fed.

acotrel- Are you saying if you get into a tank slipper, to let go of the handlebars and you will be ok, Dano.

Bernhard said:

If you are going to do dangerous sports then you should have the right attitude and motor cycling whether on track or on the road I regard as one of them. Good for you that you go cycling but as I mentioned on P9, learning how to fall without injuring yourself, I regard this as prevention rather than the cure, as is keeping yourself physically fit, it can only be for one person’s benefit – yourself.

For instance would you know what to do if say, you got high sided or thrown off at anywhere up to say, 80MPH?

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Thanks for the lecture....I am sure I need it!

Well tomorrow is 3 weeks since I ended up in Pau hospital....

Still having some pain, but have restricted the painkillers and I am still getting some sleep. I feel I can get a bit more done around the place now, if not ready to work in the garden yet!

So with the help of my wife and grandson we got the bike and the last of the race day kit out of the very damp trailer today.

Have yet to strip more than the tank off but damage assessment looks to be as thought:

1 Fairing upper, lower and screen for the bin

2 Top fairing support for the bin

3 Lower fairing support to straighten

3 Rear brake lever to straighten, left foot peg and toe peg to replace.

4 Handlebar bung missing!

5 Left exhaust can needs tidying, maybe a new alloy sleeve

6 Fuel tank has a small dent that looks like it came from a boot!

7 Probably some other minor bits to straighten out or check.

Current cost assessment is that replacing my helmet, gloves and a better type of back protector will cost more than the bike repairs, leathers could do with a few stiches, but I have another newer set. Helmet and gloves only had minor scuffs. My helmet was out of life anyway, but the gloves were new, no bursting but tech control won't like them.

Fuel tank had very little fuel in, so I have to assume the monza cap came open!, though it looked closed on the one glance I gave the bike after taking my helmet off. I say that because I am normally a bit anal about topping up fuel, or if the cap didn't open the fuel that was still in there when it went in the trailer it is now in the sump! Grandson has commented about the smell of fuel in the trailer. I turned the fuel taps off the first time I went in there last week, but probably too late.

Bike was still in a high gear and the ignition switch was sill on, so hopefully the Pazon shut down worked as it should and the sudden stop of the motor didn't do damage.

Putting the battery on the charger should indicate the state of things. Then maybe after checking the sump isn't full of fuel it could maybe be run up (though I can hear the protests already on that one!)

During next week I shall probably pull the bodywork off and get a better look. In particular I want to check wheel alignment.

Just good to get the condensation off it and get it into a better storage place.

I had it in plain black, just gel coat becaus I have no skills with paint, but am thinking of paint options now because the replacement fairing will be made with white gel coat and also maybe the tank would be best painted.

Thinking Sky Blue like the early works JPN Nortons. Wife says it looks mean in black, but this old man isn't feeling very mean this week.

Glad to hear you are on the mend and the bike not to badly damaged. Further to my comments about airbags...... If you are interested.
I went down to a local bike kit shop and had a chat with the owner. It seems I was incorrect about Ixon. Apparently they had sole use of a system designed by another company. I guess to get exposure to MotoGP. Anyway the company is called In Motion, the sole use agreement has come to an end. I see Held leathers are now advertising the system as available in their gear.
The interesting thing though is that RST are going to introduce the system into their gear apparently. He seemed to think in the next few weeks, to coincide with trade shows.
The more I look at this the more it seems a no brainer.

Sounds like it’s not TOO bad after all Steve.

And for what it’s worth, I think a sky blue JPS scheme would look awesome, and probably add 10mph too....!

On most race circuits, you can see incidents starting to happen long before you get involved. A start line incident can be more deadly than a high speed crash. When returned to racing in about 2001 - in my very first race, the bike in front of me on the start line spread it's guts all over the ground. I jumped sideways and missed him, but there could have been somebody faster coming from behind me. You can wear more body armour, but if it makes you uncomfortable, your mind might not be on your racing.
The main thing is that when you have a crash, you need to get back on the bike fairly quickly or it can stuff your mentality. I have had a few very high speed crashes - on every occasion except one, I was able to pick the bike up and at least ride it back to the pits. If you can do that, what has happened does not play on your mind. I still think about the crash I had when I could not get straight back onto the bike. It could so easily have killed me.
Probably what you should do is, as soon as you feel OK, arrange a practice day and have a slow ride on your bike to get your head straight again. As soon as your motor starts, you will feel great again.

Brooking 850 said:

Steve A , I am the same age as you and had an off early in may this year and came away with the same damage as you body wise. Also in ICU for 5 days after a trip from the track to the local hospital.
..........

So once you are over your hurt, 12 weeks usually with ribs, you will probably find the spirit to repair the bike and race again.

A lot of my race mates wear the LEATT body armour under their leathers, I have a back protector and a separate chest protector , both of which are mandatory for our racing here in NZ.

Its usually your arm tucked under your body that breaks ribs I am told.

Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
Regards Mike

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Missed your post till now Mike. Thanks, as you will see we are progressing. Doctor said 12 weeks so that seems to be fair.

The back protector is compulsory in France too, and they check every time you go out. Just need something wider than the Dainese I have. Will look at what a full body armour vest would be like, I guess you need to remove all of the protectors fitted inside the race suit first.

Shoulder hurts too so I really would not be surprised if the arm was in there somewhere.

acotrel said:

.........
The main thing is that when you have a crash, you need to get back on the bike fairly quickly or it can stuff your mentality. I have had a few very high speed crashes - on every occasion except one, I was able to pick the bike up and at least ride it back to the pits. If you can do that, what has happened does not play on your mind. I still think about the crash I had when I could not get straight back onto the bike. It could so easily have killed me.
Probably what you should do is, as soon as you feel OK, arrange a practice day and have a slow ride on your bike to get your head straight again. As soon as your motor starts, you will feel great again.

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I totally agree the principle of getting back on the horse and have applied it where possible......but.....I think your comment reflects you haven't ridden for a year or two now...nowhere I know will let you get back on the bike and ride to the pits. Even with more minor damage than mine they sweep you up and get everything back to the pits to record everything and make sure they re do tech control on any bikes/riders planning on returning to the circuit after a fall.

I have 3 bikes that will need testing at some point in the first half of next year. So I am going to have to get out there. Deciding to race will only follow that.

Thanks SteveA sounds like similar damage to both bike and self in my off in May.
The LEATT full top armour seems to fit pretty well under suits with an inbuilt rear hump on your leathers without having to remove the hump.
Our chest and back protectors are checked on the dummy grid as well.
26th & 27th Oct (next weekend ) is my last round for the year for my racing with my current race register.
Regards Mike