P11 What should it be?

G'day Guys,
I'm looking at buying a P11. Its not cheap so I would like to know that what I am buying is what it is supposed to be and not a bunch of cobbled together parts. From what I have read here, P11s' were made in batches but how do I tell what this bike is supposed to be as far as a high piper or a low piper etc.? Are the factory build sheets available? The engine/frame number is P11 1258xx

Please review the posts in this section and you will learn all you need to know.

There are several very well-informed P11 owners who have contributed LOTS of great and cross-referenced details about the various P11 years and models.

You've definitely come to the right place.

Your SN is too late to be a high piper. Build sheets are not available as far as I know. Besides the pipes, frame and bodywork is a little different between high pipe and low pipe models also.

Your serial number would be near the middle of the production range for the P11A/P11A Ranger series. (Not Ranger 750). This is a difficult area to nail down as at some point the importer (Berliner) decided that all P11A's in dealer stock should be called P11A Ranger. Subtle changes to things like the steel oil tank (several variations) went undocumented as to when they were implemented.

Basically the P11A should have the long seat with passenger pegs, chainguard, chrome fenders (although some earlier models used alloy), no stripes on the tank, and low pipes. That's just for starters.

of the roughly 1300 P11As produced, several hundred were sold as Matchless machines. The only difference is the badge on the tank. In fact, there are two identical ads from 1967-68 that show the P11 and the Atlas Scrambler (N15). Only difference between the two ads is one ad is Norton and one is Matchless

Search for the P11 thread elsewhere on this site - there are well over a hundred posts over a two or three year period, and most of what you may be looking for is there.


in the picture above going front to back, there is a Ranger, P11A, P11A(Matchless), P11, Ranger, P11A, P11A(Matchless), P11A.

My "partner in crime" bought his first P11A from Bob Schanz (Sport Motors/Domiracer) in 1968 and when he went to pick it up it had Matchless badges on the tank. He told Bob " I bought a Norton, not a Matchless!". Bob handed him two Norton tank emblems and said, "Here, now you have a Norton"! To this day, the title still says "Matchless P11A Ranger".

Typical British badge engineering :!: :?

BillT said:

of the roughly 1300 P11As produced, several hundred were sold as Matchless machines. The only difference is the badge on the tank. In fact, there are two identical ads from 1967-68 that show the P11 and the Atlas Scrambler (N15). Only difference between the two ads is one ad is Norton and one is Matchless

Search for the P11 thread elsewhere on this site - there are well over a hundred posts over a two or three year period, and most of what you may be looking for is there.

in the picture above going front to back, there is a Ranger, P11A, P11A(Matchless), P11, Ranger, P11A, P11A(Matchless), P11A.

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Hi BillT, Ron L (& all),
have been reading up posts including the docs by P G Morin on P11 development. I have a couple of questions, which im hoping somebody can advise on

Matching serial #'s on my bike 125964, is there any way of finding out what it was produced as, M or N ?

as per Ron L
"Basically the P11A should have the long seat with passenger pegs, chainguard, chrome fenders (although some earlier models used alloy), no stripes on the tank, and low pipes. That's just for starters."

as per BillT photo
shows a P11A norton with stripes and without ? was there a cut off point anywhere in serial #'s to determine which had stripes and which didn't or "was it random" or am I completely wrong ?

also another interesting thread discusses forks fitted off road / on road but does not mention / include my serial # any idea how I can find out which set for mine ?

appreciate any help

Dave

rufus said:

Matching serial #'s on my bike 125964, is there any way of finding out what it was produced as, M or N ?

Click to expand...

Sure! Order a dating letter from the AJS/M Owner's Club. (Or is it NOC? Can't remember what I did years back.)

rufus said:

... was there a cut off point anywhere in serial #'s to determine which had stripes and which didn't or "was it random" or am I completely wrong ?

Click to expand...

Paul Morin's long article in the NOC 1994 calendar (pls correct me anyone if the year is wrong) is probably the best source of cut-off dates and serial numbers.
https://www.nortonownersclub.org/history/atlas-hybrids-1
https://www.nortonownersclub.org/history/atlas-hybrids-2

Another whealthy source of information is Anthony Curzon (aka John Donne). You need to be a member of the AJS/M O.C. in order to contact him.

rufus said:

.....also another interesting thread discusses forks fitted off road / on road but does not mention / include my serial # any idea how I can find out which set for mine ?

Click to expand...

You must be joking! After 50+ years you expect to find factory fitment? Well, if this is a one-owner bike which has relinquished in a cellar since 1968, then maybe, but even then there is no guarantee of the proper parts being in place. If you trust the bike to be completely original, pls. read this thread:
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/the-p11-thread.13102/page-4

I do believe later P11A models (like you have) had roadster fork internals when leaving the factory.

Otherwise, don't be afraid to get your hands dirty.

-Knut