P11 swingarm question

johnsiii88 · Feb 27, 2013

Working on my 67 P11 restoration. I have my frame bare and am planning to powder coat it. My question is what to do with the swing arm. I have pulled the spindle out and I am left with what I assume is the spindle tube and bearings. I see that the parts manual lists 4 bearings. Are there 2 on each side? What I see is what appears to be rubber between the spindle tube and swing arm tube. Should I be able to press the spindle tube and bearings out from one side? I assume if I just masked this and powder coat, the bearings would be damaged by the heat. Is the rubber I am seeing part of the bearing? I have pictures if I can figure out how to link to them.

johnsiii88 · Feb 27, 2013

Hopefully the URL below will work. Near the end of the album is a close up of the swing arm tube.

[/url]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=112096242819172661270&target=ALBUM&id=5814049333618787457&authkey=Gv1sRgCLLWq6mb9NWeQQ&feat=email

BillT · Feb 28, 2013

Those swingarm bearings are a real PITA to change out. When I did my bike, I took the swingarm over to my local Norton guy to get the bearings and use his press, and he said not to bother - that setup is good for about 100K miles. If the bearings are tight and smooth, leave 'em be. If they're rough, then you'll need to press them out. There should be two bearings on each side with a spacer tube between.

johnsiii88 · Feb 28, 2013

thank you. That would be my preference because everything seems to be nice and tight there but what is the rubber part I am seeing? Is that part of the bearing itself? My fear is that if I powder coat the swing arm and then bake it at 400 degrees, that rubber will melt. So maybe if I am going to leave the bearings alone I will need to paint rather than powder coat. I guess that's a whole other topic of discussion. I have seen lots of discussion of the merits of paint vs. powder for frames. I talked to a guy locally who has been painting bikes for 40 years and he said he would be glad to paint it for me but he actually likes powder on frames. But maybe I should just go the paint route?

grandpaul · Feb 28, 2013

Those are "Metalastik" or "Silentbolc" rubberized bushings (outer metal sleeve, middle rubber bush, inner metal sleeve).

The rubber will hold up to the powdercoat oven, no worries there.

If they are hard and/or cracked, they need to be replaced. Typical evidence is chunks and/or rubber dust continually falling out when you tap on the swingarm.

johnsiii88 · Mar 1, 2013

Been going back and forth but I think I'm leaning towards just painting everything. That way I don't have to worry about the bushing at all. I think I have found a good local painter. Maybe I should start a new thread but my next question is regarding the tank. My P11 is number 121567. The tank I have which I assume is original to the bike but don't know for sure, appears to be the larger tank and it does not have the round badge. It has just the Norton logo on it. Also, the color is sort of a bronze-orange color. I cannot find any other traces of other color. Any thoughts on whether this would have been the original tank and if so, would it have been the Candy Apple Red? Would it have just had the Norton logo? I see no evidence on this tank of it ever having had the round badge. I will attempt to include an image.

BillT · Mar 1, 2013

121567 would be a '67 P11. This bike would have come originally with the off-road forks (stiffer springs and no buffer springs), solo seat and '67-style tail light. The tank on a '67 was plain - only a badge, though many '67s now have the silver stripe, as it does give some 'pop' to the tank. In addition, the P11 standard tank was larger, P/N 033061 (3.6 US Gallon capacity), where the P11A is the same tank as the G15/N15, P/N 033004 (2.4 US Gallon capacity). Again, this could have changed over the years, as the gas tanks are the same length and mounting points, only the larger tank is wider and higher.

This shows a '67 P11 next to a '67 G15. Note the difference in fuel tank size

Pretty good example of a '67, mostly correct

Paul W · Mar 2, 2013

Are there any mounting points on the rear of the tank? where a large rubber ring holds it in place around the top frame.

johnsiii88 · Mar 2, 2013

Yes, there are 2 mounting points on the rear of the tank. I will include pictures.

BillT · Mar 3, 2013

That's the 3.6 gallon tank which was common on the P11. The tank in P11As and Rangers is just under 10" wide if you measure across the bottom just behind the front mount tubes. The bigger tank is more than 12" wide at that point if I remember right.

Here's a pic of the small tank one would find on N15/G15CSs and P11As/Rangers:

johnsiii88 · Mar 5, 2013

Mine measures just over 11 inches at the widest point.
I think I will paint it candy apple red with a silver logo and pinstripe.

BillT · Mar 6, 2013

Red with the silver stripe will look really good. I posted the formula I used in the P11 thread. The silver base coat in that formula should work very well for the stripe, too.

The top corner of the stripe comes further back than the bottom corner, and when done right should seem to be painted around your knee when seated on the bike

johnsiii88 · Mar 10, 2013

Frame and most black parts have been painted now. This week will be the tank, oil tank and side cover. I had a stencil made for the Norton logo which I hope will work out. Had it laser cut at a local sign shop.
Next question. I need to take the forks completely apart and am currently stuck at getting the bolt out of the recess at the bottom of the forks. I have a small selection of Whitworth sockets but they are not thin enough to get in on that bolt. So I suppose I need to order some thin walled Whitworth sockets. Any suggestions on that?

BillT · Mar 10, 2013

Japanese tool company named Ko-Ken makes a very nice set of BS/W sockets. Most of the British parts suppliers sell them. My local guy, Wes Scott, keeps a set or two in his showcase. Around $55-60 bucks.

You can also go here:
http://www.kokenusa.com/

and search 'Whitworth'

johnsiii88 · Mar 17, 2013

Question about my oil tank. I am getting ready to paint it. When I got the bike, it was mostly disassembled so the oil tank had already been removed. There is a corner of the tank that is bent in a way that doesn't look right but before I straighten it out I wanted to see if anyone thinks it should look like this. I don't really see a reason for it but maybe there is. I will include a picture.

BillT · Mar 17, 2013

Chain snatch.

There were at least four different oil tanks in the P11 series, and the early, alloy tanks had an extension on the bottom to help keep mud being flung forward, Looks like the drive chain broke at some point and caught the edge of that extension. It may be possible for a really loose chain to catch the edge of the tank, but I'd bet the chain broke. It should be straightened. I'm sure it would foul the chain if left that way.

What does the sling guard on the inner chain case look like? If the oil tank shows evidence of a broken chain, chances are that sling guard was wiped out, too.

This is what my inner chain case looked like when I got my bike:

Only about 1 inch of the sling guard remained. I had it rebuilt with aluminum stock and the repair is unnoticeable.

Rohan · Mar 17, 2013

What size are your pistons in that pic ?
Did the hybrid motors get the dished top pistons like the Atlas did (initially ?), or something a bit higher compression ?

johnsiii88 · Mar 17, 2013

Thanks. Mine looks ok from what I can tell. I will straighten that edge out on the tank before painting.

BillT · Mar 17, 2013

Rohan said:
What size are your pistons in that pic ?
Did the hybrid motors get the dished top pistons like the Atlas did (initially ?), or something a bit higher compression ?

All the P11s are supposed to have the 7.5/1 pistons, but the ones in the pic are what came with my basket case.

Those pistons were stamped 'STD', and they looked like the regular Norton pistons with the long slot on the front and back side behind the oil ring. I went .020 over and replaced them with hepolites. The pistons on the just-acquired G15 are identical - flat-top with relief cuts for the valves and the long slots in the oil ring groove. Those are also stamped 'STD' - so I'll be going .020 over again.

I think the C/R is about 8.7/1. Light enough for me to kick with one foot on the ground and no side stand

Hobot · Mar 17, 2013

Ugh my P!! had like 11 or more CR when tetra ethyl lead hi test was sold on about every other city corner. Its was not made for road use so very advanced initial spark timing. It always hurt to kick it and a few time broke foot or about crushed lock knee on first light off the wrong side of TDC. I was taking my first karate class back then which helped practice starting it and surprise the black belts that spared with the skinny white belt. Once started the adrenaline rush put the pain in the background, till getting off again. Must of done something good in past life to have snagged that P!! that changed my life in a lot of ways I'll never get over.

P11 swingarm question

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