Swingarm Spindle and Clamps Question

swooshdave

swooshdave

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I'm trying to help a friend and fellow in the local club get his bike back on the road.

It's been a long time since I've been into a swingarm and back when I did mine the spindle had the top hole and the slots (for the MkIII). But when I look at the Andover site now it seems they have two different spindles? I searched the forum and maybe RGM has the spindle with both the hole and slots? Or is there a secret Andover part number that has both?

I think I got my spindle clamps from Windy back in the day. Does anyone have them now?

Thanks!
 
swooshdave said:
It's been a long time since I've been into a swingarm and back when I did mine the spindle had the top hole and the slots (for the MkIII). But when I look at the Andover site now it seems they have two different spindles?
Click to expand...

Yes, but nothing has changed. There's the long pre-welch plug spindle (hole and flats are both visible in the AN picture). The long spindle also has flats so the same spindle can be used for the (06.6972) cotter conversion cradle, not "MkIII" because it's too long...
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk


...and short Mk2/2A & Mk3 welch plug spindle...
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/16353/swing-arm-spindle-850mk3-06-5053-6-32-long-

...that has the central bolt hole (for Mk2/2A) and cotter flats (for Mk3) so it's suitable for both.
steadfastcycles.com

Norton Commando swingarm SPINDLE MKIII 1975 850 06-4699 06-5053 6.32

Norton Commando swingarm SPINDLE MKIII 1975 850 06-4699
steadfastcycles.com
 
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I sourced the Kegler clamps from McMaster Carr as they are standard sized. Can be had in black oxide coated
or stainless I believe.

Found my yrs old order:

6436K19 Clamping Two-Piece Shaft Collar for 1-1/8" Diameter, Black-Oxide 1215 Carbon Steel

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
 
Tornado said:
I sourced the Kegler clamps from McMaster Carr as they are standard sized. Can be had in black oxide coated
or stainless I believe.

Found my yrs old order:

6436K19 Clamping Two-Piece Shaft Collar for 1-1/8" Diameter, Black-Oxide 1215 Carbon Steel

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
Click to expand...
Tornado,
I got mine from McMasters a while back and had to drill and tap them for the pinch bolt along with drilling the swing arm following Heinz Keglers instructions.Can be done with the bike in situ.Makes a huge difference.
Mike
 
NYC Norton offers them too:
nycnorton.com

Swingarm Spindle Kit

Over the years of riding our silky smooth Commandos the torsional loads transmitted to the Isolastic-mounted engine cradle from the swingarm creates a worn sloppy spindle bore, resulting in vague, imprecise handing. Infamous Berliner staffer Heinz Kegler came up with a very simple yet elegant...
nycnorton.com nycnorton.com

Or Classic Bike Experience in VT
www.ebay.com

Norton Commando Swingarm Spindle Stiffening Collars | eBay

Remove the rear wheel and swing arm spindle. Attach collars on each side of swing arm without set screw and mark hole location with center punch. Remove collars, drill 1/4" hole for each. Reinstall spindle and tighten down collars.
www.ebay.com
 
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swooshdave said:
I'm trying to help a friend and fellow in the local club get his bike back on the road.

It's been a long time since I've been into a swingarm and back when I did mine the spindle had the top hole and the slots (for the MkIII). But when I look at the Andover site now it seems they have two different spindles? I searched the forum and maybe RGM has the spindle with both the hole and slots? Or is there a secret Andover part number that has both?

I think I got my spindle clamps from Windy back in the day. Does anyone have them now?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I don’t know what year bike your mate has, but if it early 74 build date be careful if you are ordering swingarm bushings, as they were transitioning to the shorter mk3 style then, and Welch plugs and the mk2 parts list has the longer ones. I know the hard way…
 
gortnipper said:
I don’t know what year bike your mate has, but if it early 74 build date be careful if you are ordering swingarm bushings, as they were transitioning to the shorter mk3 style then, and Welch plugs and the mk2 parts list has the longer ones. I know the hard way…
Click to expand...
That would actually be a bit of good luck. Cradle had the 2 bolts that went against the spindle flats and sealed bushings as MK3 had.
No need for collars with that setup.
 
Deckard said:
That would actually be a bit of good luck. Cradle had the 2 bolts that went against the spindle flats and sealed bushings as MK3 had.
No need for collars with that setup.
Click to expand...

The later Mk2/2A 'sealed' assembly had the same central cradle/spindle bolt location as the previous long spindle and bush assembly that had the end caps and long threaded bolt (rod) but with the short spindle and bushes.

Only the original Mk3 cradle assembly had the cotter pins (short spindle with flats and no bolt hole, short bushes, felts and welch plugs), although there is the cottered conversion cradle available now, however, it is as yet unknown which Commando model or even if it is an 850.
 
Sorry, I should have mentioned its an early model year 74 (9/73) build. It has the center bolt on the spindle and the two caps with the super long skinning retaining bolt.
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, but nothing has changed. There's the long pre-welch plug spindle (hole and flats are both visible in the AN picture). The long spindle also has flats so the same spindle can be used for the (06.6972) cotter conversion cradle, not "MkIII" because it's too long...
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
Click to expand...

I did not blow up the picture to a significant enough size to spot the barely visible flats.

But that's the one.
 
L.A.B. said:
The later Mk2/2A 'sealed' assembly had the same central cradle/spindle bolt location as the previous long spindle and bush assembly that had the end caps and long threaded bolt (rod) but with the short spindle and bushes.

Only the original Mk3 cradle assembly had the cotter pins (short spindle with flats and no bolt hole, short bushes, felts and welch plugs), although there is the cottered conversion cradle available now, however, it is as yet unknown which Commando model or even if it is an 850.
Click to expand...
Interesting, I bought a cradle with the cotter setup with adjustable upper trans slots about 10 years ago. I haven't used it yet and just assumed it was Mk2A vintage, as I had seen swing arms with welch plugs and pre Mk3 axle adjusters. I bought one of those swingarms on ebay, I'll have to see how my pre-Mk3 spindle measures with that combination.

How long has this conversion cradle been available?
 
Deckard said:
Interesting, I bought a cradle with the cotter setup with adjustable upper trans slots about 10 years ago. I haven't used it yet and just assumed it was Mk2A vintage, as I had seen swing arms with welch plugs and pre Mk3 axle adjusters. I bought one of those swingarms on ebay, I'll have to see how my pre-Mk3 spindle measures with that combination.

How long has this conversion cradle been available?
Click to expand...
The cottered pre MK3 cradles have been around for many years
 
Tornado said:
Norman White in his restoration book shows how to mod an earlier cradle for the cotter slot design.
Click to expand...
Yes I added cotters to my 750 many years ago
I think someone maybe Norman offered the conversion on an exchange basis?
You could also get a tapered roller bearing conversion for the swing arm pivot
But I can't remember who did that one
 
baz said:
Yes I added cotters to my 750 many years ago
I think someone maybe Norman offered the conversion on an exchange basis?
You could also get a tapered roller bearing conversion for the swing arm pivot
But I can't remember who did that one
Click to expand...
SA mod would sure be sweet!
 
Deckard said:
Interesting, I bought a cradle with the cotter setup with adjustable upper trans slots about 10 years ago. I haven't used it yet and just assumed it was Mk2A vintage, as I had seen swing arms with welch plugs and pre Mk3 axle adjusters.
Click to expand...

Yes, the sealed pivot assembly (with the welch plugs and felts) was introduced on the Mk2/2A but not at the very beginning so the parts aren't in the Mk2/2A supplement and as far as I'm aware, there is no recorded serial number for the changeover to the sealed pivot although it's possible AN might have that information.
Deckard said:
How long has this conversion cradle been available?
Click to expand...

I don't know but the conversion cradles seem to have been around since before AN* started selling them (and that's a few years now), the possibility they were a special factory item if not somebody's modification cannot be ruled out, and to my knowledge, there haven't been any reports of sealed assembly Mk2 or Mk2A models found to have a cottered cradle, only the central bolt.

*(Norvil also sells the 066972 cottered cradle but it won't be the AN part)
 
Deckard said:
NYC Norton offers them too:
nycnorton.com

Swingarm Spindle Kit

Over the years of riding our silky smooth Commandos the torsional loads transmitted to the Isolastic-mounted engine cradle from the swingarm creates a worn sloppy spindle bore, resulting in vague, imprecise handing. Infamous Berliner staffer Heinz Kegler came up with a very simple yet elegant...
nycnorton.com nycnorton.com

Or Classic Bike Experience in VT
www.ebay.com

Norton Commando Swingarm Spindle Stiffening Collars | eBay

Remove the rear wheel and swing arm spindle. Attach collars on each side of swing arm without set screw and mark hole location with center punch. Remove collars, drill 1/4" hole for each. Reinstall spindle and tighten down collars.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Both of those clamps are way over what McMaster-Carr charges...think I paid about $15 USD for the pair of black oxide types. Yes, had to drill/tap a hole in each for the additional locking bolt and a nut...but had plenty sitting about.
 
Fitting the clamps AFTER servicing the SA spindle/bushings is a good move...fitting clamps of "whatever" brand to a wallowed out swingarm components...in my option... is like putting lipstick on a pig đź’‹.
 
L.A.B. said:
Yes, the sealed pivot assembly (with the welch plugs and felts) was introduced on the Mk2/2A but not at the very beginning so the parts aren't in the Mk2/2A supplement and as far as I'm aware, there is no recorded serial number for the changeover to the sealed pivot although it's possible AN might have that information.


I don't know but the conversion cradles seem to have been around since before AN* started selling them (and that's a few years now), the possibility they were a special factory item if not somebody's modification cannot be ruled out, and to my knowledge, there haven't been any reports of sealed assembly Mk2 or Mk2A models found to have a cottered cradle, only the central bolt.

*(Norvil also sells the 066972 cottered cradle but it won't be the AN part)
Click to expand...
my 04/74 mk2 has the sealed pivot assembly, non-cottered, from the factory.

@Deckard 06-4699 spindle on the AN Mk3 parts page is 6.32” and fits this sealed pivot assembly perfectly.
 
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