P11 / P11A / P11 Ranger

Hi.
i have Atlas, N15 and Commando, but i am very new of P11.
My P11 (as the NOC Record say is a P11A) has numbers 12454X and dates from 22nd February 1968.
The engine have P11 / 12454X stamped with any "A".
The frame on the left had only the number 12454X stamped.
Please, what model my P11 is?
Thank you.
Piero

Yes, it is a P11A.

Mike B.
















b

As near as I have been able to discover from published sources:

Approximately 500 P11's were built prior to about November 1967. These were high-pipe, single seat, etc. and cover approximately serial nos. 121665 to 123364. At this time the model was changed to include a longer seat, passenger pegs, cast aluminum taillight, and a badged tank with no stripes. Production of the P11A began with serial number 124372. There were many changes during production of the P11A and in mid-1968 (September?) the name "P11A Ranger" appears (approximately serial no. 128646) and approximately coincides with the replacement of the aluminum mudguards with chrome steel. There was a final change to the G15 style seat, finned hubs, and striped tank with Norton transfer rather than badge. This was called the "Ranger 750" and was built until November 1968. The last serial number is believed to be 129145. There were many changes within models, so there are always disagreements on what is correct for these models. Records are incomplete and what has been published as gospel may not be perfectly accurate. Particularly on serial numbers.

Hmnn...unless I am missing something, 121665 to 123364, I make that 1,699 P11's. From elsewhere on this forum this...

P11 Production -
The first P11 made was 121007 and was dispatched to Berliner (ZDS Motors of Glendale) in Los Angeles on 13 March 1967. The last of the P11 series made was a Ranger 750 129145 and was dispatched to Berliner, New York on 17 October 1968.

The P11 series was made in 8 eight separate batches, with the G15CS, N15CS, Atlas, 650ss, G15CSR, G15Mk2, AJS 33 STD, 33CSR, and Commando made in between. One of those batches consisted of only 3 machines, but as a matter of record this can be recorded as a batched produced and dispatched. The following sequence of production numbers are as follows:

P11 - 1st 121007, last 123012. 4 batches made, totaling about 700 - this doesn't add up either
P11A - 1st 124372, last 126123. 3 batches made, totaling about 1300 - nor this
P11A Ranger 750 - 1st 128646 last 129145. 1 batch made, totaling 496. (the 496 number is from Leo Goff. I don't know which serials out of the 500 would be missing)

I have wondered about this before, why do the serial numbers not tally with the reported production run? I have 121083, does that make it the 74th machine made or is it less than that? NOC unable to help.

Matt

Sloppy Link said:

Hmnn...unless I am missing something, 121665 to 123364, I make that 1,699 P11's.


I have wondered about this before, why do the serial numbers not tally with the reported production run?

Click to expand...

That's because you have assumed that all the bikes within the series 121665 - 123364 were P11s, when in fact, the majority of those serial numbers would have been allocated to 650SS and Atlas etc..

Sloppy Link said:

P11 - 1st 121007, last 123012. 4 batches made, totaling about 700 - this doesn't add up either

Click to expand...

So, "4 batches of P11s totalling about 700" were made within the serial number range from 121007 - 123012 and the remaining 1,300 or so, serial numbers being other models.

Yes, during the run of P11-P11A-Ranger, Norton-Matchless also built the 650SS, N15,G15, Atlas and Commando. When they did run a batch of a particular model, there may still be another model in that run, either as a special order or some other management request.

The reason there were 497 Rangers built in that span of 500 numbers is that there were a few Commandos built in that 5 or 6 week period, too (Just a guess, but I assume pre-production 1969 models).

It is more efficient to run in batches if you only have one or two assembly lines, but there is often the odd special request thrown in

Aha, gotcha! So how do we find out the size of the batch run and the stop/start of the serial numbers?

Sloppy Link said:

So how do we find out the size of the batch run and the stop/start of the serial numbers?

Click to expand...

For that amount of information, I expect you will probably have to go to either the NOC or VMCC library/records dept. and examine the dispatch records.