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P11 hub consumables to check for wear/ replace

Discussion in 'Norton P11 Motorcycles' started by elefantrider, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    What Matchless consumable parts, if any, are good to buy and renew when taking off front and back wheels which have been on the bike for a long time? Does anyone have an exploded diagram of the front and back hub internals?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  2. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
    I'm pretty sure the only diagram/picture of the "interim" front hubs is the one on page 104 of the 1957-64 Matchless workshop instruction manual. On the front wheel I like to replace the rubber oil seals (029263, 029237) and the two RSM6 ball bearings. For the rear wheel, there are the two seals (014387) and, if needed, the two tapered roller bearings (014868). The rest of the parts should not need to be replaced unless damaged (or missing). Unfortunately, not all of the parts are easily available (if at all) and might need the services of someone who knows how to use a lathe. Here is an interesting photo of a rear "interim" wheel.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  3. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

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    Apr 6, 2013
    Many thanks!!
    If the bearings are in good shape, can't they be cleaned and repacked with grease after soaking in solvent. The tapered bearings are unique so I hope they are not crunchy. Would it possible to replace the front open ball bearings with standard sealed type bearings?

    Chris
     
  4. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
    It's your call on the bearings. I personally will replace both front and rear, just for peace of mind. The front bearings are available in RSM6-2RS variant for only a few dollars more, but since there is a proper rubber grease seal on either side of the hub, it seems unnecessary. Again personal choice.
     
  5. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

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    Apr 6, 2013
    I can find R6 and R6-2RS everywhere but not RSM6. Is that special version of R6? I looked in the Waldridge catalog but did not find.

    Will see what numbers are etched on the bearing when I get them out.

    There is a conversion for Commando to sealed bearings, probably because nowadays the sealed type are easier to find than open.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  6. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
  7. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

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    Apr 6, 2013
    How do you separate the front brake assembly from the hub/spindle? The manual's description is kind of lacking.
    Judging from the perfect looks of fasteners, lockings, it looks like I have a front hub has never been apart before.

    On the non-brake assembly side, there are 2 lock collars and a large central nut on the axle, flush with the hub.

    It looks like you unscrew with a brass drift the larger of the 2 lock collers, and that will release the brake assembly?? Are the collars standard thread rotation?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  8. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
    The lock collar is the bearing adjuster and locking ring. The large nut inside the bearing adjuster must be removed to remove the spindle and the brake backing plate. There is a spacer under this nut and also one inside the seal on the brake drum side. Do not lose these as they are difficult to find. (I had to make them for my '67). Also there is a beveled washer/spacer on the spindle outside the brake backing plate. That is also not easily found.
     
  9. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Got the spindle separated (was not too tight) brakes OK, although a little uneven wear. Looks like the only way to adjust contact area is to put in the washer shims.

    Which is the bearing adjuster and which is the locking ring, do both need to be removed to get to the bearings? Is there a way repack the bearings without touching the adjustment? The front bearings seem fine so will probably leave them in there, and add grease if i can get to them without too much trouble.

    So much special hardware on these bikes!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  10. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    [​IMG]
    Front bearing adjuster

    [​IMG]
    Front bearing adjuster lock ring

    Both will need to be removed to access bearing. Lock ring is threaded on the bearing adjuster. There is also a spacer inside the bearing adjuster which should just pull out.

    You can access the outer face of each bearing to grease, but the bearing spacer prevents accessing the inner face without driving/pressing them out.
     
  11. batrider

    batrider

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    I had the front wheel bearings apart on my G3 and probably would not do it again without good cause. They don't just fall out once the bearing adjuster is removed. I had a local garage press out the axle and bearings because I wanted to re-use the bearings if possible and didn't want to hammer on them. If they turn smoothly and you can feel a tiny bit of rock (like the front wheel tapered bearings on a car), then I'd just grease and not mess with it further.
     
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  12. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

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    Apr 6, 2013
    Thanks fellas. I will not pull out the bearings. Will mark the bearing adjuster with a dot of paint for position and loosen so I can regrease what I can access. Both lockring and bearing adjuster are standard thread rotation? Or Left Hand threads?
     
  13. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
    The adjuster and lockring are LEFT HAND thread.

    If it eases your mind, the Matchless service manual recommends the front bearings be lubricated every 10,000 miles.
     
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  14. Ron L

    Ron L VIP MEMBER

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    Feb 27, 2004
    Batrider, a G3 has tapered roller bearings rather than the ball bearings used in the "interim" hubs fitted to the P11. P11 hub bearings do not need to be adjusted for wear as the G3 does. The adjuster on a P11 is actually more a retainer than adjuster ring, as it simply bears on the outer race of the ball bearing.
     
  15. batrider

    batrider

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    OK Ron thanks for straightening me out on that.
     
  16. elefantrider

    elefantrider VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Thanks Ron, 10,000 miles is a long time for these machines. Both my bikes have fewer than 6000 miles total, according to the counter. I was surprised to see that after so many years sitting, the hub seals and grease still seem to be adequate. I was expecting crust!
     

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