P11 Gearbox, clutch, kickstart, sprocket

p400 · Mar 4, 2015

How do you replace the rubber shock absorber wedges in the clutch center?
What is the recommended procedure?
Are there instructions in a manual on this subject?
Thanks

Looks like the purple plate 040351 is shown backwards in this parts IPB.
In fact the yellow spyder center 043443 is shown backwards as well.

p400 · Mar 5, 2015

Seems this Norton tool 06-7227 would be the trick.
If the clutch shock absorber tri leg center (043443) was held on a suitable shaft, you can compress the rubber by cranking with this tool.
If your Norton was together, you could lock the rear wheel, I have been told.]

p400 · Mar 5, 2015

P11 Gearbox, clutch, kickstart, sprocket

Isn't the roller cage shown backwards to actual. Doesn't the open side of the cage face the rear?

BillT · Mar 5, 2015

No. The picture is the right way.

texasSlick · Mar 5, 2015

Part number 040351 is shown backwards (in this, and all other plates of the clutch assembly I have seen). The depression shown on the face is the raceway for the rollers 000075.

Slick

Paul W · Mar 5, 2015

For all my Norton/AMC Cush drive replacements I use an old mainshaft held vertically in the vice with the blue clutch centre and yellow spider in situ insert the rubber wedges. I Use a suitable 'C' spanner on the blue item to compress the wedges as you put the last few in. A suitable rubber grease makes life a lot easier. It's as easy as that.
Regards, Paul.

p400 · Mar 6, 2015

Reading a period article about pre Commando gearbox overhaul.
In the midst of discussing the cleanup of a disassembled AMC gearbox, a comment is made on oil changes for this gearbox.

Every Norton owner aware of this? 1000-2000 miles?
This is not an article on race bikes.
I can't think of a Norton owner that ever changed the oil in his gearbox.
Magnetic drain plugs being used?
How do you get 90w gear oil to drain out a tiny plug hole?

texasSlick · Mar 6, 2015

p400 said:
Reading a period article about pre Commando gearbox overhaul.
In the midst of discussing the cleanup of a disassembled AMC gearbox, a comment is made on oil changes for this gearbox.

Every Norton owner aware of this? 1000-2000 miles?
This is not an article on race bikes.
I can't think of a Norton owner that ever changed the oil in his gearbox.
Magnetic drain plugs being used?
How do you get 90w gear oil to drain out a tiny plug hole?

In 85K miles, I suppose I changed my GB oil 2 or 3 times. As far as I know, there are no problems in my GB. For 50K miles, I ran the Norton recommended 50W. Then, I got a wild hair and changed to 90W. Now, I am back to 50W....I figure Norton new what was best.

Slick

triumph2 · Mar 7, 2015

texasSlick said:
p400 said:

Reading a period article about pre Commando gearbox overhaul.
In the midst of discussing the cleanup of a disassembled AMC gearbox, a comment is made on oil changes for this gearbox.

Every Norton owner aware of this? 1000-2000 miles?
This is not an article on race bikes.
I can't think of a Norton owner that ever changed the oil in his gearbox.
Magnetic drain plugs being used?
How do you get 90w gear oil to drain out a tiny plug hole?

Click to expand...

In 85K miles, I suppose I changed my GB oil 2 or 3 times. As far as I know, there are no problems in my GB. For 50K miles, I ran the Norton recommended 50W. Then, I got a wild hair and changed to 90W. Now, I am back to 50W....I figure Norton new what was best.

Slick

EP90 gear oil has the same viscosity as a SAE50 oil. Norton recommends EP (extreme pressure) 90 oil in the gearbox.

"Table 5, a viscosity equivalent chart, provides a comparative illustration of all of the grades shown in tables 1 through 4. For example, the chart indicates that an SAE 50 engine oil and an SAE 90 gear oil are the same viscosity. This might surprise you if you think that gear oil is always thicker than engine oil. However, as Table 5 shows, they are nearly equivalent." Taken from here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/putting-t ... viscosity/

p400 · Mar 10, 2015

I purchased a clutch center from Ebay and find it is manufactured to the wrong dimensions.
It all looks good , but the dimension arrows show what has been altered to a narrower dimension.....and this narrowing will not let the rotor (clutch shock) turn..... once all is bolted together.

p400 · Mar 15, 2015

so the problem is the clearance (B) provided for the "rotor" movement is reduced to less than zero, locking the rotor from movement.
The only fix , to allow all other pieces to fit as needed, is to machine off the rotor (yellow) outer face to a narrower dimension, costing money and time.

Bernhard · Mar 16, 2015

p400 said:
I purchased a clutch center from Ebay and find it is manufactured to the wrong dimensions.
It all looks good , but the dimension arrows show what has been altered to a narrower dimension.....and this narrowing will not let the rotor (clutch shock) turn..... once all is bolted together.

Oh :!: the joys of buying on flea bay :!:

Click to expand...

texasSlick · Mar 26, 2015

p400 said:
Reading a period article about pre Commando gearbox overhaul.
In the midst of discussing the cleanup of a disassembled AMC gearbox, a comment is made on oil changes for this gearbox.

Every Norton owner aware of this? 1000-2000 miles?
This is not an article on race bikes.
I can't think of a Norton owner that ever changed the oil in his gearbox.
Magnetic drain plugs being used?
How do you get 90w gear oil to drain out a tiny plug hole?

Here is a page from my Atlas Owners Manual re: lubricants and periodic maintenance. Norton recommends SAE 50 and change at 5000 miles for gearbox.

Slick

p400 · Aug 17, 2015

I borrowed a clutch to enable attending the 2015 Norton Rally and finally purchased new clutch parts to replace with my own original.
The big issue was replacing the rubber inserts, which required me to purchase and fabricate new tools.
Opened up my primary to begin my clutch replacement.
Finally have the wires/plugs from the stator back to original configuration to allow unplugging and pull out an easy task.
I did not use a primary gasket last time open and it seemed to be the smallest leak from primary....... just using Three Bond 1194.

my basket/sprocket/plates, but center/shock absorb/big roller is borrowed

I did purchase the big, gold clutch tool (shown in above posts) after I thought about how many times I had been into the primary so far
....... and how many times might the future hold.
This brand new tool , from Ebay UK, required filing/grinding to allow it to fit the three clutch centers I had at hand.
Also the outside of new gold tool needed filing/grinding to fit the several baskets at hand as well.

CanukNortonNut · Aug 17, 2015

p400,
How much clearance is there between the inner primary cover and the chain ?
I am thinking of going to a X-ring chain. I have my original chain but I am not too sure of the history and I am thinking of going down this path as Andy the Chain man recommends this for the primary.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN

p400 · Aug 18, 2015

CanukNortonNut said:
p400, How much clearance is there between the inner primary cover and the chain ? I am thinking of going to a X-ring chain. I have my original chain but I am not too sure of the history and I am thinking of going down this path as Andy the Chain man recommends this for the primary. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Thomas CNN

Not enough clearance on this P11 to run anything but standard 428. Not expensive, I am not racing, hill climbing, or extended hiway use. I plan to change out every couple years or 5000 miles. Same with 520 rear chain.

I installed the new clutch center/rubber/screws/plates, noticed the new center 04-3443 didnt have the same insert as the old center. When I went to install clutch, I found the missing insert was the foundation of the clutch position....called supplier, yes it was supposed to be there.....so new one on the way.
It appears to me now that the insert/washer/spacer is to be oven brazed in place to make it very secure.

p400 · Aug 18, 2015

I can't believe how many times I have used this new clutch tool. I fretted over spending money from EbayUK order on this ..........the tool is invaluable!
I cant do Norton maintenance without it now.
Where is a torque spec published for the clutch retaining nut 04-0373?
This new tool can lock solid against the foot rest mount while you torque the nut.

Never mind , I found Old Britts webpage - https://www.oldbritts.com/n_torq.html
This figure is for Commando, but the 04-0373 nut is same for Atlas
•Clutch to mainshaft nut (1 nut, 04-0373), SEE IMPORTANT NOTE 70 ft lb.

CLUTCH TO MAINSHAFT NUT:
The factory torque setting for this nut is 70 ft lb., however this torque setting runs the risk of breaking the clutch locating circlip (06-0752). It is recomended that you use locktight on this nut and torque to 35 or 40 ft lb. If you do want to use 70 ft lb. you should use a new circlip each time this nut is removed.

texasSlick · Aug 18, 2015

Re: Warning about clutch nut torque

The factory torque setting for this nut is 70 ft lb., however this torque setting runs the risk of breaking the clutch locating circlip (06-0752). It is recomended that you use locktight on this nut and torque to 35 or 40 ft lb. If you do want to use 70 ft lb. you should use a new circlip each time this nut is removed.

This applies to the Commando which has a circlip on the gearbox main shaft. There is no circlip on Atlas, P11, G15, or N15, or any bike using the AMC Pre-Commando clutch.
This warning can be ignored with such clutches.

Slick

p400 · Aug 18, 2015

texasSlick said:
There is no circlip on Atlas, P11, G15, or N15, or any bike using the AMC Pre-Commando clutch. This warning can be ignored with such clutches. Slick

Thank you, where is a publish list of Atlas torque numbers? Some manual somewhere? webpage?

texasSlick · Aug 18, 2015

p400 said:
Thank you, where is a publish list of Atlas torque numbers? Some manual somewhere? webpage?

I have never found one specific to the Atlas. I use the Commando values given by Old Brits (http://www.oldbrits.com/n_torq.html) wherever appropriate to cross-over, or use the general values given by Old Brits for bolts of a given size. The 750 Commando engine, especially the early years, was just an Atlas tilted forward. Torque values for engine components should therefore safely cross over. Wheels, gearbox, stays, and misc also cross over.

Slick

P11 Gearbox, clutch, kickstart, sprocket

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