Opinions are not allowed

So I had an opinion about what I thought was a badly built product and a poor bit of customer service. And then the thread got shut down.

That makes this a good old boys club.

I've owned a Commando (the same one) since 1986. I've been in professional and amateur motor sports my whole life. I'm the guy you want here. I know what I'm doing.

But because I butt hurt someone's buddy, I'm a bad guy.

I know I called Don a name. I've read this forum for years. I've seen WAY worse. And I stand by my statements.

The internet maintains it reputation. Before I'm called a Luddite, I'm not phased by technology. In fact, it's my day job.

Oh well. Most internet forums devolve into social clubs. Looks like this one is no exception.

Many folks from this forum PM'd me saying Don had done the same to them. They know this place better than I do. They knew better than to post the truth. I dont roll like that. I tell it like it is.

Many more will read my words (unless censorship in among the sins here), and know what not to buy.

Shame. I bet these things would be good parts if they were built and supported by Don.

-Kyle

You might very well have a beef. And I appreciate your feelings of feeling censored. But, I think the sentiment is that you have
not exhausted your remedies both in communicating with Don and in seeking assistance from forum members in resolving your
problem. It became a personal attack. Don has not just talked the Norton talk, he has stepped up and put his balls on the line
as a small businessman to design and manufacture products that enhance our riding experience. Have no illusions that he is
getting rich doing that. For that I applaude him. Is he perfect? No. Is he honest? Yes. It seems that miscommunication has
occurred just like our government leaders do with folks they deal with. I expect you would have little trouble selling off those
Landsdowne Dampers, or if working right they do make riding a Commando much nicer. No beef. Just saying.

Look at your post above. One vague sentence about the product you're complaining about and 10 sentences complaining about Don and the forum members here... If you would have reversed that ratio, I might have a clue as to what you think was "badly built" about those dampers. You would also get feedback from others who bought those dampers relating directly to the issue you're having a problem with. As I see it, being specific about the problem is your best chance to have other landsdowne users support your claims about the product's deficiencies if whatever you are saying is true.

As it stood when the thread was locked, I wasn't exactly sure what part of the design was suspect because I don't have those dampers. You were more intent on expressing your dismay at Don, then discussing the "badly built" part.

So now you are doing it again. You're telling us we're assholes and not telling us what's "badly built".

You sound like the anti-trumpers. You're arguing your dislike for Don, rather than the problem with the product.

........

I was specific in what was wrong in my earlier post both from a product perspective and a customer service perspective. The fact that you don't see or acknowledge that makes it clear who you are in this conversation.

Other users even went to the extent to copy yours and my posts to show you.

I didn't attack Don. I posted what happened and my opinion about what happened. That's not an attack. It an accounting of a situation. I'm sorry if it doesn't match with your perspective.

Don is not honest. Honest people stand behind their work. I have had many emails with Don. He made it abundantly clear that he had no intention of standing behind his products. Other folks posted in the earlier thread the same. And even more PMd me.

Too often these days perspective over rides fact.

Look around my shop and you will see only things made by me or some small business. Were they always perfect, of course not. The issue is not technical perfection. That's not reality. The issue is standing behind your work. The technical issue is almost moot (although I described it in detail and others clearly understood it). The real issue is not standing behind your work when there is a mistake.

-Kyle

Maybe airing this out in the pub rather than a technical/old bike forum might allow for some expanded opinions/interface rather than another shutdown of an expressed opinion.
The guy has a beef and should be allowed to express so, be it right or wrong in any forum members opinion.
I got no dog in this fight but allowing an unpopular opinion, no matter how expressed, should not be suppressed.

Opinions welcome, personal attacks are not.

Just seen the facebook post
Much better wording in that post Kyle.
I would like to hear from other Landsdowne owners with the grub screw problem I can only recollect having heated it once before.
Chris

I wonder why there is a conspicuous lack of response from madass hisself.

JimC said:

I wonder why there is a conspicuous lack of response from madass hisself.

Click to expand...

Maybe because he's... I don't know, sleeping? What time is it in the Philippines?

And why would he respond, OP is doing a lovely job of burying himself.

swooshdave said:

Maybe because he's... I don't know, sleeping? What time is it in the Philippines?

And why would he respond, OP is doing a lovely job of burying himself.

Click to expand...

Sleeping for 24hrs.?

The title of this thread is “opinions are not allowed”.

That is plain wrong. The OP stated his opinion in his first thread, which is still on this forum for all to read.

What Jerry et al do not allow, is for threads to degenerated into pointless negative spirals and name calling etc, which happens a lot on the internet and this site is no different.

OP, IF your opinion wasn’t allowed, the original thread would have been removed. It hasn’t.

Actually you’ve made your opinion heard loud and clear. And, for what it’s worth, I have a lot of empathy for your position.

But threads / topics like this do reach a point, once the case has been presented, where there is no further new information or beneficial exchange of views. When that happens, they can quickly become ‘bitch fests’.

You’ve presented your case and expressed your opinion. That’s where it should end surely? Otherwise it becomes another bitch fest.

Now, back to the original issue if I may, the Lansdowne kit has many happy customers, so it does fulfil a place in the market. It is very low cost and functions better than the 60 year old original design.

But it is a very low end suspension upgrade. Reading about you disquek I respectfully suggest you look at other alternatives, it sounds like you want a higher end product to me.

My Lansdowne equipped forks (originals from John) gave me issues, I believe they over heated in hard use as they turned the fork oil to something resembling alcohol, with zero viscosity! And when this happed, I had zero damping and the forks became pogo sticks.

BUT it’s important to state this only ever happened on the track, on the road they were fine.

I’ve since had Maxton internals fitted, which I hope will perform better than the Lansdowne, they bloody well should, at 4 or 5 times the cost!

Folk need to know there is nothing special inside, just a needle adjusted orifice but it is a step up from what is fitted standard but that is irrelevant to the post.

Here is the part in question, I will never get this time back.

There is the hex/grub screw in question that is used for adjustment which takes a metric allen key.
I can only assume it is fixed into the top of the steel damper rod and the rod is fixed into the brass insert.
The brass insert threads into the cap, winding the adjuster CW or CCW lifts or lowers the needle as the brass insert does the same in the caps thread.
Seems simple enough.

If the problem relates to the grub screw being loctited into the end of the damper rod itself and it detaches you are pretty much screwed without trying to disassemble that unit.
There looks to be no thread so the grub screw can not be removed upward.







The OP could have saved a lot of drama by making a post that was clear in mechanical content with pictures.

The actual issue is unknown of course, mine is just conjecture.
The OP seems to have gone off on a tangent far removed from anything mechanical.

JimC said:

I wonder why there is a conspicuous lack of response from madass hisself.

Click to expand...

Because doing so is a lose-lose proposition.

I have two sets of the original John made dampers one set in the Commando one in the Trident. Both sets suffer from the grub socket screw being
too small. With both sets the screw can be very hard to turn. Ive had them both apart several times and found nothing wrong. My guess is that the
O-ring is just too big , ie too tight. Both sets work but they took me a lot of experimenting with oil weight to get it right. They do seem to heat the
oil up and thin it out making the adjustment somewhat changeable if you ride longer trips.
I agree that they are not high end but they are better than stock esp on the Norton.
Fast Edwardo believes that you go high end first as in the long run you will end up there anyway so save the money 'wasted' on entry level attempts.
Im not on his bus yet but Im at the bus stop and I may get on...

The Landsdowne mod does 2 actions.

1. The rebound and compression actions are separated and the damping dead zone in the originals is eliminated. On the originals the floating valve that moves between the rebound and compression positions provides no damping when it is moving between the 2 positions. So on smooth surfaces when you want high damping forces you get none.

2. The new rebound and compression valves are adjustable and actually can provide damping, originals are subject to wide tolerances and may be not even damping and adjustable only be changing the oil or fitting reworked internals.

What the Maxton, adaptations of Showa 20mmm cartridges and Cosentino dampers provide is 1, 2 and additionally 3

3. Digressive damping, you have a low fork speed circuit adjustable as per Landsdownes and a high speed circuit controlled by shims. So for smooth roads you get high damping provided by the slow speed circuit but then if you hit a bump the high speed circuit comes into play and reduces the increase in damping provided by the slow speed circuit giving a smoother ride.

I think the bore of the cap needs to be clean with rubber grease on the O-ring and lubricant on the caps internal thread also.
Can't comment for the latest version but the action of the JB unit adjusters is smooth and can't see that hex failing.

Who knows what happened to the OP units.... Well played on the RGM, the OP might get some tips from that thread and am willing to bet it will end well.

Onder said:

I have two sets of the original John made dampers one set in the Commando one in the Trident. Both sets suffer from the grub socket screw being
too small. With both sets the screw can be very hard to turn. Ive had them both apart several times and found nothing wrong. My guess is that the
O-ring is just too big , ie too tight. Both sets work but they took me a lot of experimenting with oil weight to get it right. They do seem to heat the
oil up and thin it out making the adjustment somewhat changeable if you ride longer trips.
I agree that they are not high end but they are better than stock esp on the Norton.
Fast Edwardo believes that you go high end first as in the long run you will end up there anyway so save the money 'wasted' on entry level attempts.
Im not on his bus yet but Im at the bus stop and I may get on...

Click to expand...

The FIRST THING I did was notice how stiff the adjusters turned. I figured a future failure point (the 2.5 hex) , so, I backed them off to allow greasing the O-rings. Now a perfect feel. Then a Sharpie (felt tip marker) line for reference while adjusting.

o0norton0o said:

Look at your post above. One vague sentence about the product you're complaining about and 10 sentences complaining about Don and the forum members here... If you would have reversed that ratio, I might have a clue as to what you think was "badly built" about those dampers. You would also get feedback from others who bought those dampers relating directly to the issue you're having a problem with. As I see it, being specific about the problem is your best chance to have other landsdowne users support your claims about the product's deficiencies if whatever you are saying is true.

As it stood when the thread was locked, I wasn't exactly sure what part of the design was suspect because I don't have those dampers. You were more intent on expressing your dismay at Don, then discussing the "badly built" part.

So now you are doing it again. You're telling us we're assholes and not telling us what's "badly built".

You sound like the anti-trumpers. You're arguing your dislike for Don, rather than the problem with the product.

........

Click to expand...

Only difference is, Trump is truly an asshole. There is plenty of documentation for that, so it's not one of those disallowed opinions.

Well I did lube the O-rings, liberally. They are less difficult to turn uninstalled. But they are still way too hard to turn. I will say they dont leak
at the O-ring though.