Not another oil thread but I need some guidance

[MikeM]

I have a 71 750 that I am now putting some real miles on. The builder put in 30W non detergent for break in. I have about 300 miles on it and it runs great.
He advised after break in to get the stuff out and run a 20/50 non detergent. Is this the right mix? I dont want to get into a big thing about brand. I just want to put in the proper weight and mix. What are you guys running?
Detergent, non detergent, weight.
Please dont let this thread go south, I am just looking for information.

 

[Biscuit]

A 20w 50 syn for bikes is what I use. That weight is what's recommended for my 850 and climate. I don't know why the builder of your engine would recommend a non detergent oil and I'm pretty sure you'd have a real hard time purchasing one easily. The brands I've used in this bike have varied over the years but the weight has always been 20w50 and always a detergent oil.

 

[MikeM]

I feel the reason for non detergent is due to not haveing a real oil filter.
Yes, no?
Again, I am just looking for the right information.
I thought the same thing about looking for a non d in this weight.

 

[auldblue]

Mike
Glad your cycle is running so well and you are getting some miles on it, such a pity that your confidence in your builder does not extend to his recommendation on oil use.

J

 

[Biscuit]

Truth be told, bikes like these tend to get their oil changed more often than back in the day anyway and probably in light of this may not matter, but from my understanding of detergent v non, combustion contaminants tend to get dispersed throughout the oil and is more easily eliminated with a change with a detergent. As far as a filter is concerned, I believe they will let those contaminant flow anyway and are there to stop the big chunks if you will.

 

[MikeM]

Mike
Glad your cycle is running so well and you are getting some miles on it, such a pity that your confidence in your builder does not extend to his recommendation on oil use.

J

Thanks for the shot. Exactly what I was not looking for. I have been looking for a 50W non detergent. A better question may be where to find it.
Auldblue you may step down.

 

[auldblue]

Mike

When I want to buy oil I speak to an oil company with my requirements and ask who can supply if I have any other concerns as to the grade of oil they can provide that information also .

What I meant by builder recommendations stands , if something goes wrong with the motor and you have not used his stated grade of lubricant he may just tell you to fcuk off.

Just a thought. J

 

[Hobot]

Go ahead and attack the messenger but here goes again...
The best time to use detergent is the initial start up with all the blow by carbon til rings seat and the fine metal grit, micro sealant pieces and assembly lube to keep suspended till flush out. The better the detergent the quicker the oil turns black loaded with carbonized everything. If regular filters could catch the suspended crap oil would not get as black as if no filter, which means the wear size particles we worry about fly right though like birds through fences. Regular filters are only for oil way clogging size stuff. Recently Harley offers spin on low micron primary filters and some better regular filter not approach them. Crows may get blocked from garden by standard filters but not the sparrows or bugs. Non detergent oil will drop its load in crank centrifuge or settle in tank to congeal as very stable layer that takes physical removal beyond just solvent. Who knows what the best path is unless oil analysis done routinely. The worry about detergent oils was when first introduced into 40's-50's non filter cars - ancient piles of sludge released clots to block oil ways. Some regular Cdo abuser should spend on oil analysis with various oils and with and w/o filter, then we could put this crying puppy to bed. Do consider that if the filter ain't trapping blackness out and detergent prevents sludge build up, where it going between changes? I may end up with a roll your own toilet paper filter for Peel between flushes.

 

[1up3down]

I have been looking for a 50W non detergent.

I thought you said your builder said to use a 20-50?

why are you now looking for a straight 50 weight instead, just curious?

Most everyone here agrees on a multi grade because it is a little thinner for start up


I assume your builder said to use a non detergent because you do not have an oil filter?

Non-detergent oils don't have additives for maintaining viscosity and are used for older vehicles that don't have oil filters.

 

[Hobot]

If can kick off ok then single grade is a bit better than multigrade as baseline oil gives the viscosity not more fragil additives. Don't take my word search it up. I like diesel hi detergent myself, mower to cycles and old V8's. Lap top is handy today while moving Peel project forward in a/c of carpeted living room.

 

[MikeM]

I have been looking for a 50W non detergent.

I thought you said your builder said to use a 20-50?

why are you now looking for a straight 50 weight instead, just curious?

Most everyone here agrees on a multi grade because it is a little thinner for start up


I assume your builder said to use a non detergent because you do not have an oil filter?

Non-detergent oils don't have additives for maintaining viscosity and are used for older vehicles that don't have oil filters.

I am looking for a suitable 20/50 or straight 50W non detergent as my use of the bike will be limited.
Apparently this thread went exactly the way most of the oil threads that i see. I was looking for some simple info as to who is using what in what bike.
Hobot, If I can decipher your thread you are the the most informative of all, thanks for that. You make the most sense of all. It is good information.
At this time I will go with conventional 20w/50 detergent as that is what is readily available. I would guess with regular changes it wont be an issue.
Thanks to all with helpful input.


I guess I have the info that I need. Thanks to those who provided the input that I asked for.

Please slap me for starting an oil thread.

 

[Snorton74]

You're on the right track. Non detergent for initial break in, then whatever you like. 20w 50 is a good choice.

 

[Biscuit]

Hey Mike, I really don't want to step on any oily toes here and what hobot said made a heap o' sense regarding old already sludged up engines...But, and believe and when I say I really don't want to start a huge argument here about oil, the engine builder is more than likely getting his opinions on oil the same place we all do, reading about it, getting others' opinions about it, taking in some shit and disregarding other "experts" opinions. And also just thinking about what a Norton engine might like for lubrication. Unless he built your engine with some exotic materials that indeed have special lube requirements', he may not be basing recommendations on anything but personal opinion. These engines are not space shuttle technology.
Oops I see that you sent kind of an "I'm done" post before I could send mine off. Here it is anyway 'cause I don't want to waste all my typing. :mrgreen:

 

[htown16]

One man's humble opinion. I use Valvoline 20w/50 dino 4 stroke motorcycle oil in all of my Brit bikes. Relatively cheap and available at almost all autoparts stores. Also, use Valvoline 4G/5G 80w/90 gear oil as it is compatible with bronze bushings in gearbox, 140wt of same stuff in swing arm. ATF in primary and Belray 15w fork oil.

 

[auldblue]

Mike

Sorry must have misunderstood , putting some real miles on now, really meant limited use.

I have balls but they ain't crystal.

Dazed and confused. J

 

[MikeM]

Mike

Sorry must have misunderstood , putting some real miles on now, really meant limited use.

I have balls but they ain't crystal.

Dazed and confused. J

You are absolutely confused. With all due respect please dont talk to me.

 

[Hobot]

Searches reveal a bit less wear protection the lower the viscosity starting with straight 50 down to 30 as wear protection drops way faster with 20 & below. Newest engines made for its mileage but look up 20 grade or mis-termed 'weight' to see the wear aspect. Main thing seems to seek out sufficient ZADDP in suggested grades via climate temps. Trixie is a bit more spunky on 15/40 Rotella than 20/50 or 50 dino oil but weeps more enjoying 2S cam upper 6000's. ZADDP don't protect but a very short dry clash number of rotations so best get oil press up fast and don't idle below cam break in rpm very long. Zn/P protection is not laid back down till encounters surfaces over boiling to get it that hot there too or nil desposits. So guess what occurs by much slow idle on returns, much as I love to linger in the road glow from it I don't get fuzz I can pick off sump mag no more. The best cost double or triple main stream oils so window shop the HI end brand$ and reflect about my quip of black ink absorbing toilet paper roll. Goggle up accessnorton + oil filter to find some defining data points I and others left. Past Peel had a life of freq Mobil One 20/50 and filters opened to inspect but didn't have my hobot habit down then so saw plenty of sump fuzz and almost same layer in crank cake as I discovered on first opening after 25 yr local demo and hot roder use before me. That was my first clue to suspect oil filter advertising. Now I hardly change filters but hey what do I know.

Besides relief of banter here listening how to discipline judges while fine tuning front brake riser pipe still full of solid metal for a hose order measure then dolly wheel fork stops fitted and a 'few' more holes and metal excesses preps to boil out pickle frame insides and chemical strip power coat, outside : )

 

[CanukNortonNut]

MikeM,
I am running both Dino 20-50 and 50 Straight weight. Kendal titanium. I use the 20-50 at the fringes of the driving seasons (spring and fall) where temps like to fluctuate. I live north of the 49th. Temps can range from 100 F down to 50 F for riding season with a naked bike (no fairings)...my fingers turn white after 45 min in 45-50 F degree weather. The important thing to have in (Your Choice in Oil) is that it contains ZDDP additive.
Oils made for today’s catalytic motors have this product that is vital for older designed engines (Pre Cat) REMOVED to meet todays emissions.
I have also used Amsoil 20-50 synthetic oil. I went on a long trip through 4 provinces. 4000 miles round trip. I chose this because Canadian Tire Stores up here in Canada sold this everywhere in whatever province I drove through. I wasn’t sure I could readily get the Kendal product. The price was 3X more per quart compared to dino oil.
If you are low on oil any oil is better than no oil but look for the ZDDP as to your #1 choice or 15-40 Diesel oil would get the nod before choosing anything less. synthetic oil will also come with ZDDP but choose wisely.
Hope that helps,
Cheers.
Thomas
CNN

 

[lcrken]

Mike,

I don't think I've ever seen a non-detergent multigrade like 20-50W. All non-detergent I've seen is single weight, like 30W or 50W. Doesn't mean there isn't such, but it must be pretty rare if there is such a beast. If it doesn't exist, you have to wonder what your engine guy was talking about. The usual old-school recommendation is to break it in with a non-detergent straight grade oil, then switch to a detergent, straight grade or multigrade, as you choose. Norton's last recommendation for the Commando was a mutlti-grade detergent 20-50W. Maybe that's what you engine guy meant.

Ken

 

[kerinorton]

I have used standard 20-50 grade oils for years and had no problems. I wouldn't use diesel oil as that is meant for diesel engines. I don't use synthetics either because they were not invented when the Norton was [ just my choice ].
A diesel mechanic told me one time that he used diesel oils in his Triumphs for years [ very convenient for a diesel mechanic ] , and for years his Triumphs used oil. [ I BET HIS ENGINES WERE CLEAN AS WELL ] He was talking to his oil rep one day about it and the rep gave him 4l of Motorcycle oil to try [ on the assumption that if it didn't work, he didn't pay for it. He was very pleased to pay for that oil ]. His Triumph doesn't use oil now. If there is a modern multigrade oil available that will work in your Norton, and it is readily available, then use it.