Not again!!

Last summer I was driving up the highway and had a float bowl vibrate off. After a quick highway repair, managed to get it home. As the cylinders were making an off noise, I pulled the head and found that the corresponding piston was scored. Had head rebuilt at a shop and I out it back together.

Bike would not start so removed head and found that the pushrods were not properly seated. Put back together with new push-rods and bike would start but not idle. Vice screwing around all summer with it, took it into local brit bike shop and asked him to give it a once over/professional tune-up/double check etc.

Friday, got the call that the bike was running great and the boyer was the culprit. The mechanic indicated that there were some routing issues with the crank case breather (previous owner) and that he had also put new boyer and fixed a couple of leaks. $550!!! an expensive tune-up to say the least.

My buddy picked up the bike on saturday and rode it to his home (about 40 minutes city/hwy) as I was working. He said it ran great (he has an 850). Today I go to kick it over and it takes about 15 kicks to get her going. I figure I over-tickled etc so carry-on.

After about 5 minutes of city driving, suddenly I can't get it out of 2nd gear. Its like the shifter is hitting a wall. Pull over, cycle the lever, and try again, it still won't let me shift out of second so I carry-on intending on limping it home if required. About 5 miles up the road, it lets me get to 3/4 th gear.

Pulled over at the antique car show about 20 minutes later and hear some weird nose from rear end. Chain is slapping the guard! Hmmm...have checked the chain before and it was fine, now I have about 2 inches of play. Thought, ok...will get her home the final 13 miles on the highway and take care of the chain.

Take off and as I am transitioning to highway, have to pull over and check the gears again as I am unable to hit third. Try again and get third/fourth and cruise off at 65mph

About 7 miles up the highway I notice the ammeter is strangely pegged at zero. Look down again a minute later, it is over to plus 4. This is where I thought something is really, wrong. Not even 2 minutes later, the bike dies. Pull over and it looks fine. Check the oil and when I take the cap off, there is oil but it is smoking in the oil tank. 6 miles to home so fire it up and drive about 1/2 mile and it conks again. Fire it back up and now hear bad noise from jugs. Phone wife and buddy and trailer it back home.

I am ready to sell this bike and move on. What the hell is wrong with it!!! :cry:

Fess up, you are two timing the Norton with another bike... mine does that too when I ignore it for too long, it will break stuff even if I don't use it just to spite me :lol:

Jean

Jeandr said:

Fess up, you are two timing the Norton with another bike... mine does that too when I ignore it for too long, it will break stuff even if I don't use it just to spite me :lol:

Jean

Click to expand...

Well the BSA is running fairly well so you may be on to something. Having said this I probably just cursed taht bike too.

ludwig said:

Is this a cheap replacement ammeter ?
These are useless and can cause problems .
If they fail , you have no more current ;
replace it withe a clock , or something .
a guess :
loose chain + gearbox shift problem = loose gearbox bolts or failing sleeve gear bearing ?

Click to expand...

Am going to call the Brit bike guys today and get there thoughts. Last thing I need is a $5k rebuild. I don't want to pop the heads off til I talk with them plus I was too pissed off yesterday to even look at it. The ameter is the stock one that has never failed before. Having said this, when I picked up the bike, the one side bolt to the headlamp was lose and the shell was vibrating pretty bad. I hand tightened it to get it home. I suppose it is possible that the ammeter connection either came lose or the ammeter itself was killed by this before I tightened it.

Re the lose gear box bolts, this is my initial suspicion although , sleeve bearing makes me scared.

Thanks for the responses. Mostly I need to vent to those that have been through the trials and tribulations of Norton ownership.

Yikes.

Settle in, get a bike lift, if you don't have one yet, and go front to back, top to bottom and set it all right.

B-Stone don't feel too bad, Just this weekend I decided to change some seals in the 75 MKIII, Has been leaking just a bit. Pull primary off to get to the transmission seal and to my HORROR I find that the outer shell is cracked at the spot where the layshaft bearing is. The only reason I did this now is because the 72 is at the welder getting the exhaust system finished, That bike still needs a few more days to finish by the way. So I pull the trans out and it looks as if I have been riding this thing since I bought it with a torn up tranny. The inside is a mess and will need a complete rebuild, Crap! Shells are not cheap and also the inner cover needs to be replaced too, All the gears are nicked and it looks as if some ham head worked on it as it must have been put back together with a sledge hammer. Almost nothing is worth keeping, Thank God I have a decent set of gears to put in and have a few bushings and bearings too. But the shells and the other bits are going to be pricey to say the least. The strange thing is I never felt any vibration or heard any noise, The guy that was riding it must have though as the gears were a mess and it is hard to believe the thing still ran for the few years I have had it. All the things can be fixed and I guess I will know the condition of it now, It was the only thing on the bike that was not rebuilt. Don't loose hope. Chuck.

Chuck, I'm not sure if your tale of woe is going to be reassuring to anyone. :wink:

Oh well, Sorry I just wanted him to know he is not alone.

hi chuck, iv,e seen the crack you mention between the layshaft bearing and the sleeve gear bearing, theres not much meat in that area,mick hemmings sells a strengthend quaife main shell that apparently cures this problem,but maybe a good welder and machinist could repair it

My Norton is an unpredictable, temermental, money loving ho'. Yours sounds posessed B-, maybe need to ride it to a bike blessing.

They can be tamed, I'm told. Haven't figured out how yet after 34 years with it.

Rest assured that the tales of woe and suffering that you guys have posted go far to make me feel much better. Not sure if this makes me a bad person or not...

B-Stone said:

Jeandr said:

Fess up, you are two timing the Norton with another bike... mine does that too when I ignore it for too long, it will break stuff even if I don't use it just to spite me :lol:

Jean

Click to expand...

Well the BSA is running fairly well so you may be on to something. Having said this I probably just cursed taht bike too.

ludwig said:

Is this a cheap replacement ammeter ?
These are useless and can cause problems .
If they fail , you have no more current ;
replace it withe a clock , or something .
a guess :
loose chain + gearbox shift problem = loose gearbox bolts or failing sleeve gear bearing ?

Click to expand...

.

Click to expand...

Hi sorry about your troubles best bet is to go over the bike front to back check all bolts- nuts anything that can come loose. Get a decent multimeter then check out
(a) The charging circuit zener diode rectifier alternator..replace all old kit with modern rectifier regulator unit. I would dump the ammeter and either fit the assimilator warning light or a modern LED battery voltage gauge.
(b)Check all the connections under the tank this is where the majority of the wiring problems develop.
(c) Pull the gearbox dismantle and re-assemble many problems could be lurking in there.

Only my opinions feel free to disagree all you Commando owners. Had my 850 for 17 years still my favourite bike. (My other is a Moto Guzzi so I am a sucker for punishment..... :roll:

Chris my shell was cracked on the outside of the case, It had a layshaft bearing go in its life at some point and created a bulge on the outside of the pocket for the layshaft bearing. Also the inside of the shell was ground down from the gears making contact with the case. Hard to believe they just threw a new layshaft bearing in and put it back together. The gears are a mess and the pockets for the bearings a looser than a retired call girl, They must have had to replace a few other items I'm sure but some of those gears just amaze me. But I am determined to get her done before the rally, I also am a glutton for punishment. But the reward at the end is worth it to me anyway. I just love this stuff! Wife hates it. Carry on.

As for the rear chain being loose, I would ask the people that serviced it if they adjusted the primary chain. If the answer is yes they most likely did it wrong. The manual is clear on how to do it correctly unfortunately it doesn't stress the importance of the correct sequence of adjustment. Basically the adjuster must be adjusted by pushing the gearbox forward towards the engine and not the other way by pulling the gearbox backward otherwise all the freeplay between the bolt and the casing etc will be on the wrong side and it doesn't matter how tight you do that top gearbox bolt up as soon as power is applied the tug of war that exists between the primary chain and the rear chain on the gearbox the rear chain will always win and pull the gearbox backwards taking up the slack in the bolt/casing and making the rear chain slack and making the primary chain like a bow string. This beside damaging the sleeve gear etc will cause you gear selection problems aswell, quick check remove the primary inspection plug and put your finger in and see how tight the primary chain is.
I have found the best way to adjust the primary is to temp overtighten the rear chain slightly or put your foot on it to preload the gearbox backwards to take up the slack while adjusting the adjuster in the forward direction loosening the rear chain as you go and when that is all done and tightened up set the rear chain slack correctly.
Best

This what it sounds to me like a possibility. The gearbox came loose which made the rear chain off and adjustment as well as the primary chain. While flopping around it may have cut your alternator wires. This would then kill your ammeter. Moral...when a bike makes noise stop and don't proceed until you find the problem, a lesson we have all learned painfully.

Well got it unloaded and here is what I have found so far...

The good news

1. All the valves seem to operating correctly when hand cranked over with covers off
2. Dumped the oil and no major swarf/chunks of metal could be seen/felt by inserting finger up hole
3. Battery is good and holding charge
4. No real gross noises on hand crank less the rear chain (see bad news point 2 and 3).
5. Oil in tank seems ok although some signs of condensation.

The bad news :cry:

1. There is something kooky going on with the electrics.The ammeter remains pegged at zero even with the key and lights on. (The running lights and headlamp do work)
2. The noise at the ass end is largely related to an exceedingly loose chain (see point 3 below)
3. The three bolts that hold the hub shell to the Brake drum (sprocket) were all lose. I can wiggle the sprocket and separate it from the hub by about 1/16th"

Not sure news :?:

1. Have yet to see if any major damage is internal.
2. Took the primary off and everything looks ok. Deflection on primary chain is approx 3/8" with a solid finger push.
3. Hardly any fluid came out of the primary side.

The shop told me that the boyer was cooked when I brought it in. They said that the old unit kept advancing thus my inability to time her. Not sure if the old problem is connected to any of this and I am/have messed up the new boyer etc.

That's all I can tell after unload and quick check over. What would I do without this forum? :mrgreen:

Great,

That is very good news. Basically it sounds like nothing major is wrong. Inspect very carefully after a loose wheel as studs and such can be damaged.

Obviously this bike is possessed and your only safe alternative is to sign over the title and send me directions of where I can pick it up before something terrible happens! :lol:

Seriously, we have all had periods like this. You have the right idea. Take a breath, step back, then approach the problems in a logical stepwise manner. You have already found the rear wheel issue. For the gearbox, pull the outer cover and check the springs. Either the light ratchet spring is weak or misaligned or the heavier spring is likely worn. These are prone to rust and weakening, resulting in failure to engage the quadrant.

I would measure the battery voltage across the terminals at rest, then start the bike and measure again at 2500-3000 rpm. You should see a higher voltage with the engine running, indicating that it is indeed charging. If this is confirmed, then your ammeter is flaky. Again, this is not an unusual occurence.

Good luck!

Ref the hub/sprocket bolts being lose...

Do you think this would cause the chain to slack off? While obviously not a good thing, I can't figure why this would result in the chain becoming so loose.

Thanks

OH Man. I don't have a prayer then. My recently acquired 72 was a real basket case. Got the tag transferred to me today and it cost $6.50 :wink: told the tag lady I'd never gotten out of there that cheap. guess my luck is about to change. hey Stone just fix one thing at a time and maybe it won't hurt so bad.

Just tagged my 72 and it cost me $404.00 Gotta love a liberal
welfare state. :cry: