Norton vs Matchee
- Thread starter TBolt
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I believe the Norton N15 and Matchless G15 are the same just different badging.
There are reports that when the bikes came new in the crate, they came with both Norton and Matchless badges.
The Dealer could fit either, depending on what the customer wanted to buy !!
Some of them were also available as an AJS as well, although these are rather uncommon. ?
The Company name at one point back then was Norton Matchless, after all.
AMC had included these brands, amongst others, prior to that.
The Dealer could fit either, depending on what the customer wanted to buy !!
Some of them were also available as an AJS as well, although these are rather uncommon. ?
The Company name at one point back then was Norton Matchless, after all.
AMC had included these brands, amongst others, prior to that.
Paul, i don't believe any of the hybrids had the logo of either marque cast on the timing chest. The only difference is the model prefix and the tank badge. N15 for the Norton product, G15 for the Matchless. As others have pointed out it seems that badges were sometimes mixed and matched at the US dealers depending on the customer's wishes.
I am currently building a Matchless G15 and looking forward to riding it, it is a good looking machine in my opinion and could arguably be considered as the grandfather of today's super motards.
I am currently building a Matchless G15 and looking forward to riding it, it is a good looking machine in my opinion and could arguably be considered as the grandfather of today's super motards.
Don't expect good handling from a G15/N15. I saw Bill Ivy and, I think Rex Butcher riding G15CSRs at the one 500mile Production race that was run at Castle Combe. It would have been 64,65 something like that. Anyway we were ensconced at a full bore left hand sweeper, and I especially remember Ivy standing up wrestling this thing. The second bike was always a bit slower and only seemed bad, rather than terrifying, probably the rider deciding that it was important to finish! Truly terrifying, and these were "works" bikes. I think it was one of the three races that was won by the Syd Lawton Norton 650SS. I had a ride on a Matchless P11, and at 70mph the ends of the handlebars were describing a 2" diameter circle, most uncomfortable.
Best of luck
wakeup
Best of luck
wakeup
Shortly before I lef N-V, a P-11 showed up from Plumstead with a request to "try and sort out the handling". There had apparently been a fatal accident in California desert racing involving a rider being pitched off after getting into a "tank-slapper" steering oscillation and N-V were getting ready to "lawyer up".
It was brand new, so the first thing was to break it in. I got that job and put about 1500 miles on it, keeping below 70 mph for the first 500, then below 80 for the remainder. It was a scary ride, and I'm glad I went on the motorway with it. It felt odd, right from 10 mph, with a slight side-to-side weaving motion that you couldn't correct with steering inputs. As the speed went up, the amplitude of the weave got bigger. At 80 mph, it was weaving about 70% of the freeway lane width. The wavelength of the weave stayed about the same, around 500 yards.
I was very relieved when my part of the riding job was done. The shop mechanic who did more riding said that after about 88 mph, it quit weaving, but once back below about 82 mph it started again. We messed about changing fork oil, checking frame alignment changing tire types from dirt tires to street tires, but nothing helped. We even put a different set of front forks on it, to no avail.
I left to emigrate to my Boeing job a few weeks later and the guys were still no closer to identifying the problem. My gut feel was that some subtle frame flexing was to blame, but with no instrumentation to measure things with, it was a lost cause. I think the bike was still at Marston Road when the whole shebang moved out to Andover. I don't know what eventually happened to it.
It was brand new, so the first thing was to break it in. I got that job and put about 1500 miles on it, keeping below 70 mph for the first 500, then below 80 for the remainder. It was a scary ride, and I'm glad I went on the motorway with it. It felt odd, right from 10 mph, with a slight side-to-side weaving motion that you couldn't correct with steering inputs. As the speed went up, the amplitude of the weave got bigger. At 80 mph, it was weaving about 70% of the freeway lane width. The wavelength of the weave stayed about the same, around 500 yards.
I was very relieved when my part of the riding job was done. The shop mechanic who did more riding said that after about 88 mph, it quit weaving, but once back below about 82 mph it started again. We messed about changing fork oil, checking frame alignment changing tire types from dirt tires to street tires, but nothing helped. We even put a different set of front forks on it, to no avail.
I left to emigrate to my Boeing job a few weeks later and the guys were still no closer to identifying the problem. My gut feel was that some subtle frame flexing was to blame, but with no instrumentation to measure things with, it was a lost cause. I think the bike was still at Marston Road when the whole shebang moved out to Andover. I don't know what eventually happened to it.
wakeup said:
frankdamp said:
So, you're saying that some of these old bikes that people are paying stupid money for were always dangerous, shitty machines? Curse you and your objectivity!! :shock:
You can't just go raining on the nostalgia parade without there being consequences! :wink:
Corona850 said:
Quite right.
Matchless off-road bikes and Atlas featherbed frames are totally different bikes - the only common bits are the engine and gearbox.
And the air in the tires.
The wheels may be common, for some models anyway.
P.S. There was a thread recently somewhere about the front forks on the hybrid models could be set up for either off-road or road riding.
And there was a warning in the owners handbook about using the off-road setting on road.
Ludwig here has a hybrid with Commando-type forks and disc front brake on it.
He's done a lot of miles on that thing, with some exotic backdrops in his photos.
Maybe he should comment...
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The letter in front of the ' 15 ' differentiats them . 
Corona , the P11 & P11A use a frame thats chroomemolly & was used for o.h.c. & pushrod Matchless Scrablers . But they were really desert racers . G 88 & G 85 .
CS was a bit like S/C . Comp . / street . as in ' Clubmans ' , ride to track , remove lights , race , refit & ride home . :lol: Ianucchi had one of the o.h.c. suckers
while he was a desperate young man . Likely still has it . So I red in a magazine somewhere .
Was offered a complete good condition blue Matchless rolling chassis for $ 50 around 1980 . All the snots said they were junk & didnt handle .
Theyed read it in a magazine somewhere .
Were Matches predominantly Blue & the Nortons normally RED .
Presumably a blue Norton with ' G - 15 ' Numbers is a Matchless .
Despite the paperwork .& badges .
Corona , the P11 & P11A use a frame thats chroomemolly & was used for o.h.c. & pushrod Matchless Scrablers . But they were really desert racers . G 88 & G 85 .
CS was a bit like S/C . Comp . / street . as in ' Clubmans ' , ride to track , remove lights , race , refit & ride home . :lol: Ianucchi had one of the o.h.c. suckers
while he was a desperate young man . Likely still has it . So I red in a magazine somewhere .
Was offered a complete good condition blue Matchless rolling chassis for $ 50 around 1980 . All the snots said they were junk & didnt handle .
Theyed read it in a magazine somewhere .
Were Matches predominantly Blue & the Nortons normally RED .
Presumably a blue Norton with ' G - 15 ' Numbers is a Matchless .
Despite the paperwork .& badges .
The duplex Matchless frame used by AMC always got good reviews for handling, it is damned heavy though. They used this frame for road bikes and scramblers and it did just fine in production road racing.
It is a damn heavy piece of iron, but in the mid and later 60s it did not have to be light or state of the art, it just had to be there and look stylish enough so AMC and Berliner's could have something to market to several thousand cowboys.
In the USA right through the 60s, it was normal to run 750-1000cc Harley and Indian V-twins off the road in dirt events, so 500cc singles and even the heaviest British parallel twins were thought of as lightweights by many people. So when a rider of that generation got onto a dirt-track on a 650 Matchbox, they did not think of the weight but just how it tracked and steered.
If you are talking about pre-unit bikes, before the unit construction and two-stroke jobs came along, the Matchless had full respect in the handling department on and off the road. A featherbed might beat it on a road course, or a Goldie might out-run it on a longer dirt track, but only if their rider had enough going on between his ears to exploit what extra they had to give.
It is a damn heavy piece of iron, but in the mid and later 60s it did not have to be light or state of the art, it just had to be there and look stylish enough so AMC and Berliner's could have something to market to several thousand cowboys.
In the USA right through the 60s, it was normal to run 750-1000cc Harley and Indian V-twins off the road in dirt events, so 500cc singles and even the heaviest British parallel twins were thought of as lightweights by many people. So when a rider of that generation got onto a dirt-track on a 650 Matchbox, they did not think of the weight but just how it tracked and steered.
If you are talking about pre-unit bikes, before the unit construction and two-stroke jobs came along, the Matchless had full respect in the handling department on and off the road. A featherbed might beat it on a road course, or a Goldie might out-run it on a longer dirt track, but only if their rider had enough going on between his ears to exploit what extra they had to give.
There was quite a lot of discussion at Marston Road about the stability of a frame originally designed for a 500cc single when the 750 Norton twin was installed. My gut feel was that there was some kind of sympathetic distortion in the frame and the rear suspension that caused the weaving. Unfortunatly, we had no test instrumentation to measure what was going on.
Memory plays tricks too, as I remembered the frame as a single front tube configuration on the bike we tested.
Memory plays tricks too, as I remembered the frame as a single front tube configuration on the bike we tested.
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1957 SGVMC H&H 1st - CHARLIE HOCKIE
This one was the heading picture ( in B&W ) in Cycle for ' The Glory Days of the Desert Sleds ' Artical .
Two Strokes ? :lol: