Norton trouble

Bernhard said:
Ooopphs! Like the accountants at Norton, I seem to have missed out a zero on that £80, 000!
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Welshrugby said:
It would have been interesting to have been a fly in the wall at the Metro Bank meetings to see why they decided to pull the plug when they did. Maybe they were tipped off at some of the practices reported of stripping parts from owners bikes to get other bikes looking finished in order to get balance payments or maybe they just didn't believe in the evolving business plan.

I never met SG or SS but my gut feeling is that I do not believe that there was ever any intention to commit fraud, I believe there was good intention their to build the brand with the newer models and make everything right. The initial 961's and even the later 961's had their issues but I have always been dealt very fairly and all warantee issues were sorted, right up until the day of admin.

Who knows, with a bit of extra time, could they have got the Atlas moving, got money in from China, India and Japan and made the company a success, thus making the loans repayable and the pension money a good investment. Some obvious mistakes in hindsight was the expediture on the big country estate and TT racing, or was that essential to build the brand up again. The six Astons were definately excess to the extreme. The stripping down of bikes to get money was the last resort to try and keep the whole thing afloat, I wonder if we would have ever known about that (as bad as it was) if some more time was given.

More info will come out in due course I am sure, current owners are concerned about thier own investments in thier bikes but all of us are I am sure feel deeply for pension holders involved in the demise as well as folks that put deposits down and made full payments towards bikes they may never get.

Many are very angry right now with what has transpired, but my gut feeling as I say was that they were not doing this as a con, but just got it wrong and made very foolish decisions that will come back to haunt them in the coming months.
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Re; "I never met SG or SS but my gut feeling is that I do not believe that there was ever any intention to commit fraud, I believe there was good intention their to build the brand with the newer models and make everything right"

One wonders where in your world when does SG tip himself over the line from a good business plan to downright fraud?
Lets look at the evidence, over 30 complaints to the pensions Ombudsman for not returning their money, £800K worth of expensive cars for SG to amuse himself with and millions of pounds of Government money that went down the ever expanding piss hole, and still he couldn't pay the £300K to the taxman-which brought about his downfall. I bet he was laughing until the last bit when his " Walter Mitty" world collapsed around him.
 
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Welshrugby said:
I was under the impression he made his millions with the fireworks companies and used his wealth to purchase the Norton brand. Or was that all on the never never as well
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And do you know what happened to that fire works company? . . . . . did it go out with a bang, like all the other companies SG allocates himself the head honcho of?
 
Fast Eddie said:
About your farmers and company owners Mark, sure they want a top spec car, they do need A car after all, and want to appear successful etc. All perfectly natural.

If SG had AN Aston I doubt we’d be talking about it...

But why did he have 6 Astons, 2 Range Rovers and 1 Jag ? (Bernhard, that’s LOT more than £80k by the way)?!

Its that level of irresponsibility and disregard that gets people mad.

I look at behaviour like that as an indicator... if he’s prepared to squander cash like that, in what other ways, and in what other amounts, has he squandered even more ?
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All the cars except the Range Rover were confiscated by the receivers BDO.
 
trident sam said:
If you knew all this then why didn't you at least let everyone know on this site and the Norton Owners club site, it might have saved some people a lot of anguish, never mind money ?
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as in a previous post, there was the MCN who always go for a blown up headline, which was looking for a story, to someone else who had the stories on SG ( Which the press wouldn't publish) but was looking for an headline!
 
Welshrugby said:
I was under the impression he made his millions with the fireworks companies and used his wealth to purchase the Norton brand. Or was that all on the never never as well
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The story about the millions he made with the fireworks companies (that all went bankrupt unless he resigned his directorship, see Companies House records) were as true as the motorcycle production figures he quoted , that he paid the purchase price for the trademark from his own pocket, that he alone developed the 961, that his sidekick was the head designer of the Triumph 675, that Brexit was great for British industry (oops! Now lately it is Brexit that broke his neck) or as everything else I have read as quotes from him.

You want to read this if you feel like throwing up: https://www.derbyshirelife.co.uk/ou...garner-of-norton-motorcycles-uk-ltd-1-3918557
He paid for his first house with the money he got for a motorcyle he repaired? He made enough money from producing motorcycles in homeopathic doses in an ridiculously oversized and overpriced abode to buy and maintain it?

At least he knew how to handle the idiots he fooled- see the Union Jack on the large table in one of the pictures. If you want to con an Englishman you pretend you are staunchly patriotic and presently busy restoring a piece of the glorious long-gone past to new greatness.
 
Fascinating article but i’M struggling with the patience for it. He’s aged an awful lot in 4 years since that was written, business been tough?
 
Bernhard said:
Re; "I never met SG or SS but my gut feeling is that I do not believe that there was ever any intention to commit fraud, I believe there was good intention their to build the brand with the newer models and make everything right"

One wonders where in your world when does SG tip himself over the line from a good business plan to downright fraud?
Lets look at the evidence, over 30 complaints to the pensions Ombudsman for not returning their money, £800K worth of expensive cars for SG to amuse himself with and millions of pounds of Government money that went down the ever expanding piss hole, and still he couldn't pay the £300K to the taxman-which brought about his downfall. I bet he was laughing until the last bit when his " Walter Mitty" world collapsed around him.
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It is reported he bought Norton America with money obtained by fraud, he was offered so much help and assistance and life changing sums of money from those that could have helped him during the past 12 years, but he refused, why, because the scam would have been uncovered.

Ironic, as his bikes even carried the warning with the union Jack upside down, may be it was some joke of his.

Clearly it was a con from the start. The motorcycle side was just a front that aided his story to suck in those that would fall for it.
 
As much as SG is a pariah, a crook etc, and we might not have a lot of sympathy for those who invested their pension pots in a short term get rich quick scheme, you have to have some sympathy for the 100 or so employees, those in the supply chain etc.. who now join the ranks of the unemployed - yes some were complicit in the illegal procurement of bike parts but there were some good people at Donington and I for one feel some sympathy for them.
 
I agree with that. All the guys on the shop floor I dealt with were all very decent. It makes me wonder why so many good guys left in the last year or two.....perhaps it’s akin to the moon landing scenario and why so many astronauts died in suspicious circumstances. Unless you were happy to be complicit with what was going on, you weren’t welcome there?
 
Eljahara said:
As much as SG is a pariah, a crook etc, and we might not have a lot of sympathy for those who invested their pension pots in a short term get rich quick scheme, you have to have some sympathy for the 100 or so employees, those in the supply chain etc.. who now join the ranks of the unemployed - yes some were complicit in the illegal procurement of bike parts but there were some good people at Donington and I for one feel some sympathy for them.
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I do feel sorry for them and I would feel double sorry if they had put their hard earned pension pots into any scheme run by SG, but as far as I know, nobody did. They haven't even been given their P45s yet, and will SG walk away with a "golden handshake " ?
 
Welshrugby said:
It would have been interesting to have been a fly in the wall at the Metro Bank meetings to see why they decided to pull the plug when they did. Maybe they were tipped off at some of the practices reported of stripping parts from owners bikes to get other bikes looking finished in order to get balance payments or maybe they just didn't believe in the evolving business plan.

I never met SG or SS but my gut feeling is that I do not believe that there was ever any intention to commit fraud, I believe there was good intention their to build the brand with the newer models and make everything right. The initial 961's and even the later 961's had their issues but I have always been dealt very fairly and all warantee issues were sorted, right up until the day of admin.

Who knows, with a bit of extra time, could they have got the Atlas moving, got money in from China, India and Japan and made the company a success, thus making the loans repayable and the pension money a good investment. Some obvious mistakes in hindsight was the expediture on the big country estate and TT racing, or was that essential to build the brand up again. The six Astons were definately excess to the extreme. The stripping down of bikes to get money was the last resort to try and keep the whole thing afloat, I wonder if we would have ever known about that (as bad as it was) if some more time was given.

More info will come out in due course I am sure, current owners are concerned about thier own investments in thier bikes but all of us are I am sure feel deeply for pension holders involved in the demise as well as folks that put deposits down and made full payments towards bikes they may never get.

Many are very angry right now with what has transpired, but my gut feeling as I say was that they were not doing this as a con, but just got it wrong and made very foolish decisions that will come back to haunt them in the coming months.
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Re the last paragraph above " they were not doing this as a con etc" - that is the WHOLE POINT of a con to be successful the mark doesn't see that he/she is being taken in!!!!!!
And surprise, surprise, some of you have still not cottoned on!
 
Accnor73 said:
I agree with that. All the guys on the shop floor I dealt with were all very decent. It makes me wonder why so many good guys left in the last year or two.....perhaps it’s akin to the moon landing scenario and why so many astronauts died in suspicious circumstances. Unless you were happy to be complicit with what was going on, you weren’t welcome there?
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The shop floor workers were trying to do a fair days work etc; and were not necessarily in on the whole shebang they did what their boss told them to do so unless someone can prove otherwise. .
 
Bernhard said:
The shop floor workers were trying to do a fair days work etc; and were not necessarily in on the whole shebang they did what their boss told them to do so unless someone can prove otherwise. .
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Bernhard
Hopefully those “in the know” and still acting poorly will not get away with the excuse “we were only following orders”
 
Bernhard said:
The shop floor workers were trying to do a fair days work etc; and were not necessarily in on the whole shebang they did what their boss told them to do so unless someone can prove otherwise. .
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I agree with this is in the main, my comment was more along the lines of the three notable good guys I dealt with who left in the last year/18m... maybe they left because they could see what was happening, weren’t comfortable complying, and therefore were left with no choice but to leave. There will be the majority on the shop floor (who I didn’t deal with) who were blissfully unaware for sure.
 
Just out of curiosity does anyone have a copy of the document prepared by BDO which details Norton owning 6 Aston Martins?..Or has anyone actually seen it?..
 
On the subject of cars... SG had a black Lamborghini parked up at the launch of the anniversary edition, no mention of that, maybe he traded it in.
 
Or did premium companies want their products parked outside a posh house where some very wealthy blokes were wandering around contemplating their V4 investment whilst talking to world famous Sportsmen and the odd Prince just in case some one was contemplating another toy.My next door neighbour has a brand new Porsche Cayenne on loan as he is a World Champion so maybe BDO just gave them back to the actual owners!!!. I'm still going to give his intentions the benefit of the doubt, and I will hang my head when he gets 10 years, but until then, Innocent until proved etc.
 
No replies to my question??...So I will ask again in case it was overlooked...has anyone either got or seen a document published by BDO stating that Norton owns 6 Aston Martins?..The Press have quoted it, people on here and Twitter have quoted it...so where is it?..someone must have a copy...unless of course it's just a load of BS???..Until somebody shows me some evidence of this document I dont believe it exists ( I Will happily apologise and admit I am wrong if the evidence appears)...So if thats turns out to be nothing but BS...what else that we are reading about this escapade is?
 
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