Norton trouble

A classic Ponzi scheme run for benefit of one person, best to extract the Trade Mark and start with a clean sheet.
 
Let us asume the "full order books" story is a true one for a change.

That does not mean it makes sense to produce the bikes ordered unless money can be made on each one. The burn rate of the company was hideous. The question is whether, relieved of the burden of an egotripper whose private means no doubt profited from much of the "investments", relieved of a stately home that this miniscule and practically pennyless company British Airways unloaded to the world market leader Norton Motorcycles because they found its maintenance costs crippling, and with the acquisition of an experienced team of industry insiders, the running of this little operation can end up in profit. If it cannot, and all indications in the motor industry speak against manufacturers of this size, then the order book, big or non-existent, makes no difference.

And don't forget the at least 30million owed to third parties (I trust Gino on the numbers, he is normally well-informed): even just paying interest on these was a prerequisite for a "going concern". As is the eventual repayment. From what substance?

The best bet is a re-start with a clean sheet of paper and money in Bloor dimensions. Which we will support as well as we can.

As for us supporting the spares needs of 961 owners: if this is possible and, again, financially viable, we are happy to do it.
 
I went in to the garage last night to cheer myself up and admire my norton. It worked.

I’m definitely worried about what this will mean for future repairs and servicing etc.

If the worst happens though I guess the bike is worth almost it’s value in spares!
 
ZFD said:
Let us asume the "full order books" story is a true one for a change.

That does not mean it makes sense to produce the bikes ordered unless money can be made on each one. The burn rate of the company was hideous. The question is whether, relieved of the burden of an egotripper whose private means no doubt profited from much of the "investments", relieved of a stately home that this miniscule and practically pennyless company British Airways unloaded to the world market leader Norton Motorcycles because they found its maintenance costs crippling, and with the acquisition of an experienced team of industry insiders, the running of this little operation can end up in profit. If it cannot, and all indications in the motor industry speak against manufacturers of this size, then the order book, big or non-existent, makes no difference.

And don't forget the at least 30million owed to third parties (I trust Gino on the numbers, he is normally well-informed): even just paying interest on these was a prerequisite for a "going concern". As is the eventual repayment. From what substance?

The best bet is a re-start with a clean sheet of paper and money in Bloor dimensions. Which we will support as well as we can.

As for us supporting the spares needs of 961 owners: if this is possible and, again, financially viable, we are happy to do it.
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Just a minor point but British Midland were the original owners of Donnington Hall
 
Sorry, correct- British Midland became part of British Airways in 2012. And Norton bought it post-merger, i.e, from British Airways, but it was the British Midland headquarters.
 
A friend of mine worked at Triumph and said the investment was around £100M before they turned a profit
 
Gino Rondelli said:
Over 8 million to suppliers I believe and at least 5 million to the bank, the taxman is small fry in this. Oh and at least 14 million to pensioners . And of course all the money paid for bikes up front which now won't be made. The film rights to this story may be worth something.
Sad but totally expected unless you've had the rose tinted glasses on the last 12 years
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What happens to Stuart Garner now?
Try to keep it clean!
 
Indeed, paying off a £30m debt will require selling A LOT of motorcycles, even profitable ones.

If our small collective on here, who are all emotionally biased towards Norton, are looking at this so unconvincingly, you can bet that the clear minded / hard nosed financial guys will be even more so...
 
MAK said:
What happens to Stuart Garner now?
Try to keep it clean!
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It’s seems to me that whilst Skinner ran the motorcycle side of the business, Garner was the expert in using Norton to exploit investors, loans and a myriad of government grants a schemes of various sorts. Very successfully too I’d say.

With that in mind, and the fact that all of the various companies were Ltd companies, I think it’s safe to assume that Garner has not “lost everything” and has his financial needs taken care of very nicely, thank you very much.

I’m only a layman in such topics, but reading the recent links on here, the big question in my mind is; has he overstepped the mark somewhere between morally wrong (which I think is beyond question) and legally wrong. If he has, he may be enjoying a stay in one of HM red brick hotels...
 
Fast moving this news isn’t it , wonder what’s going happen next ? & no need to cancel my service on April 9th now , will def try “ Prime Factor Motorcycle’s “ in redhill Surrey now .
 
I don't know much, if anything, about SG, only thing that ever bugged me was buying a 50th at a sales pitch at Donington where SG 'pushed' the 50th Anniversary of the Commando as key milestone in the Norton brand with all the reunion, fireworks and celebrations to come, which never happened. That pissed me off but pales into insignificance at the prospect of losing my pension savings, I had no idea that this was how Norton had been originally funded.
 
The whole experience with buying my 961 was so disappointing, and it should have been so positive. I didn't like Garner from the outset and should have trusted my thoughts more. I only saw Skinner once , and he looked like the kind of man I'd keep slapping till my hand hurt.
I do hope something good comes of the sorry episode , we deseved better.
 
BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
Fast moving this news isn’t it , wonder what’s going happen next ? & no need to cancel my service on April 9th now , will def try “ Prime Factor Motorcycle’s “ in redhill Surrey now .
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I have Krazy Horse the same distance as Donington. If they are happy to continue with Norton aftercare then it's a great place to go.
 
Given time I can't believe that some enterprising ex employees won't set up a Norton service/development/spares operation similar to that created after Hesketh went belly up and despite the various issues owners have had, imo the 961 is a much better motorcycle than the Hesketh was.
 
That takes money, experience, and faith in the product. Richard Negus (ex Norton Motors/Shenstone "Chief of Motrorcycles") and I did that with Norton Motors Ltd in Rugeley, funded by me. It was never a profitable enterprise, in spite of Richard's inspired work, and we shut the company down years later with a loss.
Given the 961s were mainly wrenched together by the state-paid "motorcycle industry apprentices" (how on earth could Triumph produce motorcycles before this great scheme was launched by great men, I wonder) I reckon of the 15 or so employees left there are 14 apprentices and one engineering dillettante.
 
Accnor73 said:
I went in to the garage last night to cheer myself up and admire my norton. It worked.

I’m definitely worried about what this will mean for future repairs and servicing etc.

If the worst happens though I guess the bike is worth almost it’s value in spares!
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The answer is don’t worry - enjoy your bike and if there is a problem work out how to fix it! We spend our lives worrying about stuff that probably won’t happen. There are many vehicles running that have no factory support....
 
£30m debt, and how many 961's built ? likely less than 400 ? When we do the matts, that's 75.000 per motorcycle built, something seriously wrong with Nortons business model.
 
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As of 11pm tonight he can hide out in Germany, Austria or Slovenia as extradition with UK stops then. He could visit ZDF and help out in the warehouse ;)
 
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