Norton Rotarys

S

sidreilley

Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
114
Just idle curiosity, but does anyone have one of these or have experience with them? Were they even imported into the US? I've never seen one in the flesh. On the surface it seems like a good idea, but Mazda never seems to quite get it right, (something about the seals on the rotor tips as I recall). I wondered if Norton had better luck.
I remember back in the early 70s, my first ride in an RX3. To someone used to US supercars, it was a real eye opener.
 
Rode along next to Tom Kullen's Rotary at a Norton rally 1999 any time he needed to leave us behind it was no problem. They are a bit of a trick to import though.
 
I love that video where they are revving so high the pipes almost melt off!!!!! :shock:
 
I rode one a few years ago; it was an ex-RAC aircooled one converted to look like a Norvil Yellow Peril.
The engine was amazingly smooth - like sitting on a large electric motor...you're aware that there's something going on down there, but there's no vibration as such. It was powerful and fast enough to live with my 851 up to the 120mph-ish speeds we were doing on the open road.
Following it was a bit different - the exhaust fumes were quite frankly disgusting! It didn't use 2-stroke oil (which smells OK to me), but some stuff I can't remember the name of. All I remember is trying to keep up with my eyes streaming!
The owner races a vintage Triumph outfit and certainly got the best out of it on the road - regularly suprising and embarassing Jap Jockeys on the Devil's Bridge run.
Apart from the chassis being 'a bit '70s' it was a good tool.
 
B+Bogus said:
Following it was a bit different - the exhaust fumes were quite frankly disgusting! It didn't use 2-stroke oil (which smells OK to me), but some stuff I can't remember the name of. All I remember is trying to keep up with my eyes streaming!
Click to expand...

Rotella? (Shell Rotella 40)
 
Until very close to Norton's final death throes, the rotaries were Police and RCA/AA only, not for sale to Joseph Q. Public. I strongly susect that it was due to the apex seal wear problem that Mazda had uncovered on their rotary-powered family sedans and the terrible fuel consumption they had.

Mazda had such a commitment to the Wankel concept that they spent untold millions on apex-seal research and finally managed to get a good system. The later RX-7s and the RX-8 were pretty reliable. My boss at Boeing had a Cosmo, and he had maybe five engines replaced under warranty before Mazda bought the car back to save money!

Unfortunately, they were, like most two-strokes, lubricated by oil metered in with the fuel and subsequently burned off. That's what made your eyes water!
 
Frank,
Hate to sound ignorant, but what is RCA/AA? I understand police. I was curious if the engine life was extended by the direct oil injection. I didn't think Mazda did that. Of course even if it worked, it probably wouldn't meet emissions now anyway. I noted in a recent issue of Classic Bike, the new Norton Co. says they are "still evaluating" the potential of the rotary as a road machine. I just wondered what the history was.
One of the things I find really interesting about this forum is the people like you who can provide the real story on why things were the way they were. Thanks for the insights.
 
Sorry, Sid, a minor typo. It should have been RAC/AA. RAC is the Royal Automobile Club and AA is the Automobile Association. They're both similar to the US AAA and Canadian CAA, and for many years they had motorcycle patrols to help stranded members. Originally, they had Norton singles (the ES2, I think) with a box sidecar in which they carried tools and parts.

They went over to the van version of the Morris/Austin Mini at some point (1970 or so) but presumably kept a few patrolmen on solo bikes and got some of the Norton Rotaries. I don't think there are any solo patrols still running.
 
A local guy in Scotland here has a water cooled Commander.

Every few miles the right side pipe emitted a comically huge cloud of strange smelling smoke, but the bike went well. I think he's overhauling it now after about 100,000 miles.
 
That 87 pictured in LAB's second link is sort of sleek - even by today's standards. Might be a fun tourer or at least an attention getter.
 
gidday. I have a John Player F1 here in Australia. Mad bike!.when you start it up it sounds a bit like an Evinrude Outboard
on Coke, but when hot, it settles down to this amazing lumpy sound. A bit like it has an outrageous cam in it. It throws a lot of people because no one can figure out what it is. A cammy two stroke?. I can't start it up in the garage because of the blue smoke. Its really quite sticky and the smell sticks to your clothes. Once warm the bike emits little to no smoke at all.
It has a very flat power band and revs right out with no vibration. Very comfy if you have short legs.

I am told they are massively envionmentally unfriendly............. Go you green house gasses!!!!!!!!
 
Interesting perspective comparing it to a two stroke. I wonder if the synthetic oil especially made for two stroke bikes would help the smoking issues. I know it works on dirt bikes and chainsaws. :)
 
Hi. Using a Silkolene Racing Two stroke oil. Was about $85AUD for 4 litres. Sposed to be the right gear for the bike. The smoking is only at start up.
 
Triton Thrasher said:
A local guy in Scotland here has a water cooled Commander. Every few miles the right side pipe emitted a comically huge cloud of strange smelling smoke, but the bike went well. I think he's overhauling it now after about 100,000 miles.
Click to expand...

I was close to buying a Commander a year or so back but someone put a cash deposit down the day before i arrived for a test ride, and offered more than i was willing to pay :cry:
I believe there was a foible with the Commanders, coming back onto the throttle after coasting would result in a cloud of blue. Startright motors have solved that, but some minor internal machining is required.
I haven't heard of rotor tip issues but less frequently used machines reportedly have issues with seals between the rotors and the side plates - molybdenum coating the side plates is the cure.
Well used machines are supposed to just keep on going.
 
How many different models of these things are there? Is the Commander the same as an Interpol 2 without the (extra) lights?
 
I'm in the Yorkshire branch of the Norton Owners Club & we have a few lads with Rotaries.
They seem to go OK & are smooth to ride BUT, I think most of them look a bit old fashioned.
We had one at Norton Day 2008 all the way from Germany. It was in really nice condition & won a prize that day.
I suppose you could liken it to a Honda Pan European but not quite as sophisticated.
The F1 is a really nice looking bike but I have been told by an owner that its not very practical as an eyeryday ride.
I have a friend who owns a Rotary Classic so I will have to go out for a ride on his while he takes out my 750 Interstate.
I once used his R1 while he took out my 1200 Bandit, It scared the hell out of me with the speed of it.
I must say where ever you stop on a Norton people stop & talk to you about it.
Happy riding all.
 
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