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Norton Manxman

Discussion in 'Other Norton Motorcycles' started by skipsoldbikes, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. dynodave

    dynodave

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    1. Current owner does not have the intellect to change the carb mounting components.
    2 Without studs- nuts and long allen screws the carbs and manifolds will fall off. :?:
     
  2. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    with inlet studs a make my own on my lathe rolled threats and make then that bit longer so you can then fit an extra domed nuts to lock up the end thread so they will never come undone this bit of work that makes things at bit better i use domed nuts on the engine plates too they finish the look of the bike off
     
  3. dynodave

    dynodave

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    quoted from above
    PER ANNA
    Norton Manxman's never had any Allen bolts or Screws fitted too them

    Sorry Annna The engine I am assembling DOES have 2 studs with nuts and 2 allen bolts to hold the carbs on.
    The two front head fixings on every norton twin that I have worked on since 1971 has two 5/16CEI studs in the barrels and this manxman has two BOLTS. The current owner did not change them, and we believe he is the first to dismantle this engine back around 1990.
     
  4. Matchless

    Matchless

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    My unmodified one previous owner 650ss, first registered in February 1962, has two cap head socket screws & two studs holding the carbs on.

    Martyn.
     
  5. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Well I have the Norton Manxman 650 parts Manual it dose not tell you about any allen screws on the inlet manifold So what your saying is the Factory's own parts manual is wrong
     
  6. bad_friday

    bad_friday

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Where do you get the parts list from?

    Fritz
     
  7. dynodave

    dynodave

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    1. Matchless: Norton changed the name of the bike from Manxman TO 650SS. Traditionally this means the end product has CHANGED. However I am noting that your carb holding hardware is like mine.
    FWIW (anna) allen bolt/screw(american) is the same as socket head cap screw.

    2. anna: "it dose not tell you about any allen screws on the inlet manifold"
    Neither does YOUR IPL...The hardware is "carb mounting" which includes spacer blocks (OK some call these manifolds)

    3. So far no one has confirmed or denied other instances of the front two head bolts on my subject engine 94516 instead of the normal NHT 5/16 stud/nuts.

    4. Yes I would also like to see a "manxman" IPL, however we know (I know) from observing nortons past documentation it is not always correct or complete for a whole production run/series. It may have been correct for one period of production then things change on the production floor and fail to make it into IPL revisions. 50 years later here we are talking about it...the discrepancies
     
  8. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014


    Allen key head bolt is for a single carburetor manifold fitting has fitted to Norton Standard and De-Lux Models Also had down draft ported head fitted Has the Manxman did But the Manxman has internal sleeve fitted in the inlet tracks The Parts Numbers for these are in The 1961/2 Norton parts Manual and has models 88-99 650 Standard and De-lux 650 SS and ES2 Model 50 parts manual the Norton Manxman 650 Has its own parts Manual and its not entered in any other parts manual , Now has for engine Number 94516 I cannot confirm what model this is but if its a 650 then It's a Manxman Motor Built in November 1960 late November that is ! now i do hope this clear things up !
     
  9. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Why are we going hammer and tongs on what holds the manifold on ?? !! ??
     
  10. dynodave

    dynodave

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Well I have the Norton Manxman 650 parts Manual it dose not tell you about any Allen screws on the inlet manifold So what your saying is the Factory's own parts manual is wrong[/quote]

    1. Matchless: Norton changed the name of the bike from Manxman TO 650SS. Traditionally this means the end product has CHANGED. However I am noting that your carb holding hardware is like mine.
    FWIW (anna) Allen bolt/screw(American) is the same as socket head cap screw.

    2. anna: "it does not tell you about any Allen screws on the inlet manifold"
    Neither does YOUR IPL...The hardware is "carb mounting" which includes spacer blocks (OK some call these manifolds)

    3. So far no one has confirmed or denied other instances of the front two head bolts on my subject engine 94516 instead of the normal NHT 5/16 stud/nuts.

    4. Yes I would also like to see a "Manxman" IPL, however we know (I know) from observing Norton's past documentation it is not always correct or complete for a whole production run/series. It may have been correct for one period of production then things change on the production floor and fail to make it into IPL revisions. 50 years later here we are talking about it...the discrepancies[/quote]

    Allen key head bolt is for a single carburetor manifold fitting has fitted to Norton Standard and De-Lux Models Also had down draft ported head fitted Has the Manxman did But the Manxman has internal sleeve fitted in the inlet tracks The Parts Numbers for these are in The 1961/2 Norton parts Manual and has models 88-99 650 Standard and De-lux 650 SS and ES2 Model 50 parts manual the Norton Manxman 650 Has its own parts Manual and its not entered in any other parts manual , Now has for engine Number 94516 I cannot confirm what model this is but if its a 650 then It's a Manxman Motor Built in November 1960 late November that is ! now i do hope this clear things up ![/quote]

    No Clearer since you don't address the actual 4 questions.

    You reference the general 61/62 IPL as a reference? what manxman question are you clearing up?

    This manxman has no visable provisions for intake sleeve retention.

    I assure you this a 650cc engine in SS tune and has come out of an original blue featherbed (18), small tank, red seat bike, correct seat position and matching rear fender seat mounting position. I'm quite sure that this bike, owned since the late 80's, is a manxman irrespective of your concurrance.
     
  11. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    well if you want photos and dimension on these silencers i can give you them if you wish contact me on my email
     
  12. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    You need to forget it RAYSONS WILL NOT TOUCH THESE SILENCERS WITH A BARGE POLE I have Sent THEM PHOTOS To hard to make there 2 baffles one in the other so you see there not that easy to make has other makes would have made them by now
     
  13. wilkey113

    wilkey113

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    So tell us AJD, are you saying that these are simply unable to be made? I'm quite certain that many skilled exhaust makers, could surely make them. Obviously it'll cost whatever it costs, but certainly it can be done.
    And Raysons are some of the best. Maybe they just didn't want to work with you.
     
  14. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    It seems there is now an on-going problem regarding exhausts, all the old replica manufactures of these items, the owners have either retired or have died, it seems they are a dying breed :!: :(
     
  15. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014

    Well after looking through my 1961 Norton Manxman parts manual parts numbers 23369 x2 inlet port sleeves parts numbers 23394 x2 distance pieces for carburetor part number 23563 studs x4 & E3231 nuts & washers for studs Now argue with the 1961 Norton Parts manual and there is no mention of Allen bolts in this part section grope P of the 1961 Norton Manxman parts Manual
     
  16. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    I am not saying they cannot be made I am saying that Raysons will not make them ! I do have a maker that will have a go at making some but this will be down to getting to see the man the original ones were made in house At Bracebridge street they made other types of their own silencers too some have been poorly copied
     
  17. annajeannette

    annajeannette

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Well I do not give out BS has you call it!!!! I do have all the Norton Manxman 650 Factory information Passed on to me by Dave Catton HEAVY TWINS DATA MANAGER NOC and a 1961 Norton Manxman part manual And its was me alone that did all the Norton Manxman information which I have more of than anyone In or out of the Norton Owners Club
    So do try arguing with Norton own Factory records
     
  18. dynodave

    dynodave

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    ]

    Sorry Anna The engine I am assembling DOES have 2 studs with nuts and 2 Allen bolts to hold the carbs on.
    The two front head fixings on every Norton twin that I have worked on since 1971 has two 5/16CEI studs in the barrels and this Manxman has two BOLTS. The current owner did not change them, and we believe he is the first to dismantle this engine back around 1990.[/quote]


    Well after looking through my 1961 Norton Manxman parts manual parts numbers 23369 x2 inlet port sleeves parts numbers 23394 x2 distance pieces for carburetor part number 23563 studs x4 & E3231 nuts & washers for studs Now argue with the 1961 Norton Parts manual and there is no mention of Allen bolts in this part section grope P of the 1961 Norton Manxman parts Manual[/quote]

    We agree no manxman in MY1960 see here the FACTORY brochure OK
    http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Brochures/1960/60NortonBrochure.pdf

    Here is the FACTORY pix of the "62"manxman
    http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Brochures/1960/62NortonManxman.pdf

    Look through 61-62 FACTORY parts book ps214 on page 56 for the "allen screw" 23395 carburator fixing screw
    http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Parts/1960s/NortonParts1961_1962.pdf

    I have heard of a mythical parts book not FACTORY but instead Berliner in New Jersy USA
    Is this what you are refering to? IMHO a parts book from those days is a snap shot in time and NOT a final authority that anyone including you "MIS Researcher" should get so wrapped up in.
    For example this Norton memo is an example of the fluid nature of a production environment. Sometimes as few as 30 machines before another change!!!
    http://atlanticgreen.com/images/Norton Twins Modification List.pdf

    SO "Mis Information", My friends genuine norton manxman has 2 allen bolts identified as 23395 carburator fixing screw and what you are trying to prove is that rocking horse poop does or does not exist. And I'm not buying it.
     
  19. Rohan

    Rohan

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    You'll have to do better than this Dave, everyone knows the Manxman appeared towards the end of 1960,
    so wasn't in the initial 1960 brochure.
    As a 1961 model most likely, but it still was 1960.

    I'd be a little skeptical that any socket head cap screws appeared on Nortons that early,
    but haven't followed this p*****g match too closely.
    Without someone being the original owner, we are not likely to get any better judgement either ?
    Tony Curzon reputedly has the factory master parts list, it may be detailed enough to say ?
     
  20. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    +1
    this is the correct method if you have a single carb manifold-as was used on my Atlas.




    Without trying to be rude to you Anna, how do you know that your records were kept up to date, there has been many times in a production run when something or the other was changed and the spec wad not recorded? :shock:




    http://atlanticgreen.com/images/Norton Twins Modification List.pdf

    SO "Mis Information", My friends genuine norton manxman has 2 allen bolts/screws-23395 carburator fixing screw and what you are trying to prove is that rocking horse poop does or does not exist. And I'm not buying it.[/quote]
     

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