Norton death?

Thanks for the clarifications on the Commando parts side of things.

Nethertheless, the New Norton website lists that they are gearing up to supply new manxs and manx parts. This would appear to be in collaboration with the Walmsley Manx. And is referring to them in places as "Works" bikes.

If you own the logo, maybe this is how it works ?

Whether you like it or not, Norton name will continue. It will just be case of where the bikes are built. I would bet there are a lot of vulture companies in India just waiting to put Norton on a tank of a machine made up locally. It needs a tight reign on the Trademark ownership to control it. It may be a case of having to build them there to meet demand (that would be a success) From what I have read about a recent trademark poaching it seems that the factory involved builds Harleys under licence to help meet global demand, and the factory owners are hidden beyond layers of Indian business paperwork and holding and parent companies The Norton name will certainly continue, it will be just a case of who's controlling it.

If no one minds me asking, what role does Norvil play in all of this?

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/

What should they, they are just a retailer like many others. What role play Hemmings, Old Britts etc? The same.

Except that Norvil own the Commando name.

Fullauto said:

Except that Norvil own the Commando name.

Click to expand...

http://sumpmagazine.com/classicbikespec ... mandos.htm

The Norvil Trademark

Les shares co-rights to the Norvil trademark with Mick Hemmings. But the position is a little more complicated regarding the Commando name. That's jointly owned by Stuart Garner (Norton Motorcycles).

Click to expand...

The Commando name registration is only of interest to those who haven't already used it for many years BEFORE it was registered. These have prior use- like most dealers and Andover Norton. There was a case recently against one vendor about using the Commando name in connection with a new component for Commandos, which was decided in this vendor's favour against Norvil by the British Trading Standarts Office. Fullauto may have heard about that one. The marque can, at best, only carry water against the new kids in the game, i.e. young firms like Garner's.

ZFD said:

...Fullauto may have heard about that one.....

Click to expand...

Which brings me to the main question about these "new" Commandos: Fullauto's heads are AFAIK the only ones which can be called "new". So I'd assume - given who AFAIK is Fullauto's supplier in Europe - the Norvil Commandos don't come with anything better than recondished original heads. Not a bad thing - but not "new". Fullauto, can you enlighten me there? And if they were really new AFAIK in Germany they would hace to comply with current emission standards - it was lengthily discussed here in conncection with the Podevijn coffins (aka crated Commandos). Sorry, I don't get it, to mee this whole "Norvil Commando" thing sounds either half-legal or half-true.


Tim

I ordered 7 Commandos about 16 years ago.The Norvil bikes were made from refurbished parts with a possibly new frame, tank etc thrown in - clearly most outside engine parts were used before. They were delivered and looked okay - not perfect because of wrong tacho/speedo and various other small items. We sold them on only to find out soon that it was all crap in the engine compartment. The cams were buttersoft in all 7 bikes. So one after the other came back with complaining customer. When I opened the first motor I not only found a completely worn cam but pistons with 4 valvepockets as well - so you could use them left and right in a 750 - :shock: I found this in all 7 bikes.
When talking to Les Energy on the phone and asking for new cams, proper pistons and a bit of compensation for all the work I got the reply that the cams were run-in wrong , probably with multigrade and Nortons only work on monograde oil. Well - I told him that the running -in was his fault as all the odometers showed around 80 miles when we got the bikes .....he said that I must have thrashed the bikes AND used a light multigrade so its all my fault. No words about the pistons - even Norvil didn´t have an excuse for that. I gave up - if I would have been in GB at the time I would have visited him..... :mrgreen: Of course we never got any sort of compensation.
The paperwork on all bikes was from 1971 - clearly the bikes didn´t have the correct numbers for 1971 but were from all years (excluding the E-start) - go figure...

WEAL Norton said:

I ordered 7 Commandos about 16 years ago.The Norvil bikes were made from refurbished parts

Click to expand...

That is an amazing story !!

In many places, selling something used as NEW is a hanging offence....

Madnorton said:

Whether you like it or not, Norton name will continue. It will just be case of where the bikes are built. I would bet there are a lot of vulture companies in India just waiting to put Norton on a tank of a machine made up locally.

Click to expand...

Personally, I like the concept of the Norton name going on.
Norton has had at least half a dozen owners over the past century or more, so a few more is just adding to the history. And Mr Garner seems to at least be an enthusiast, not some financier after a quick buck. Although time will tell....

If you study the "Nortons" for sale on UK ebay, there are sometimes a host of tiddlers for sale - 125 and 250 cc, with names like Norton Villiers and sundry other names I can't recall. Quite a lot of them, in quite a variety of colours and models.
Anyone know who is behind these ?

Rohan said:

Personally, I like the concept of the Norton name going on.
Norton has had at least half a dozen owners over the past century or more, so a few more is just adding to the history. And Mr Garner seems to at least be an enthusiast, not some financier after a quick buck. Although time will tell....

Click to expand...

Ever wonder how many Nortons Garner had before he bought Norton? :roll:

swooshdave said:

Ever wonder how many Nortons Garner had before he bought Norton? :roll:

Click to expand...

The big test is how many Nortons he will be able to say "we made" when he leaves Norton...

Q. How do you make a small fortune out of making motorcycles ?
A. Invest a large fortune in them....

Rohan said:

swooshdave said:

Ever wonder how many Nortons Garner had before he bought Norton? :roll:

Click to expand...

The big test is how many Nortons he will be able to say "we made" when he leaves Norton...

Q. How do you make a small fortune out of making motorcycles ?
A. Invest a large fortune in them....

Click to expand...

Ollie certainly learned that lesson.

So has Bloor.

So did the Texas-Pacific Group...

And so on.

Interesting to look at the ownership of Ducati, it appears to mimic Norton:

(1926–1950) Ducati Family
(1950–1967) Government IRI management
In 1953 split into Ducati Meccanica-now called Ducati Motor and Ducati Elettronica-now called Ducati Energia
(1967–1978) Government EFIM management (control over day-to-day factory operations)
(1967–1973) Headed By Giuseppe Montano
(1973–1978) Headed by Cristiano de Eccher
(1978–1985) VM Group
(1985–1996) Cagiva Group ownership
(1996–2005) Texas-Pacific Group (US-based) ownership and going public
Headed by CEO Federico Minoli, 1996-2001; returning for 2003–2007
(2005–2008) Investindustrial Holdings SpA (back in Italian hands)
(since 2008) Performance Motorcycles SpA (again in Italian hands and going private)

Ya, but Bloor has been successful over the 20 years he's owned the triumph brand. Where as the other seem to fail rather quickly in comparison.

http://www.inter-bike.co.uk/motorcy...es-group-announce-2010-financial-results.html

Rohan said:

If you study the "Nortons" for sale on UK ebay, there are sometimes a host of tiddlers for sale - 125 and 250 cc, with names like Norton Villiers and sundry other names I can't recall. Quite a lot of them, in quite a variety of colours and models.
Anyone know who is behind these ?

Click to expand...

A few years ago, a company trading as Norton-Villiers was selling a range of Norton-badged 50-250cc Chinese motorcycles and scooters, however, the acquisition of the UK Norton name by Stuart Garner probably put an end to that as Norton-Villiers no longer appear to be selling them as Nortons.

http://www.nortonvilliers.com/

Norton Manxman 250

Good god L.A.B. that is awful.

Who was responsible for the Nemesis?

Here is a little more on it:

Wow!