norton atlas

Stephen_Spencer said:
I get your point mate, although I can’t remember reading the ‘ICE not the future’ quote from Norton (probably missed it), although as we all know that is inevitable.

I think the Atlas was the victim of a couple of scenarios. They obviously need to strike out in their own direction at some stage - spending time and money releasing another Donnington Norton would‘nt do that. I also thought the ‘bling for dollar’ advertised for the Atlas looked pretty bloody awesome. Maybe in todays environment they simply couldn’t market the Atlas in the intended price bracket. Lets see what they have to say at the NEC - would love to be there.

Norton were not going to say either of the above so maybe ‘ICE is not the future’ met the narrative at the time.
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The reason for TVS not to manufacture the Atlas bikes is simple.
They don’t know how.

They only know how to manufacture bikes SG already had been selling to the public.

Their only interest is to use an existing motorcycle and find parts of it that they can supposedly redesign or reverse engineer, then make a claim that 360 parts have been changed.

Then of course be tight lipped about it.

Stephen
Have I told you I made improvements on how Fairy bread is made?
 
Voodooo said:
The reason for TVS not to manufacture the Atlas bikes is simple.
They don’t know how.

They only know how to manufacture bikes SG already had been selling to the public.

Their only interest is to use an existing motorcycle and find parts of it that they can supposedly redesign or reverse engineer, then make a claim that 360 parts have been changed.

Then of course be tight lipped about it.

Stephen
Have I told you I made improvements on how Fairy bread is made?
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😊Ah V2D3, methinks that you don’t really believe what you write! Methinks, you are a closet antagonist! Which is pretty funny 😆!
 
😊Ah V2D3, methinks that you don’t really believe what you write! Methinks, you are a closet antagonist! Which is pretty funny 😆!


I prefer to call it sarcasm.

But some of what I post is what I believe. To a point.

But to be honest, so far, TVS has only used SG era bikes and nothing of their own design. That to me is lame.

Follow me on Instagram for more baking tips.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I get your point mate, although I can’t remember reading the ‘ICE not the future’ .......
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You may be assuming too much.
The fact that they think the Atlas line is "not the future" may have nothing to do with its ICE pedigree.
Norton may believe:
1. Twins are not the future for the company.
2. Retro styled new models are not the future for the company.

Yes we know that Norton will design and build new EVs, yada, yada, yada.......
Norton may be looking at a multi-cylinder future for their new ICE line. A line that will help them close the performance gap with other manufacturers.

The 961 is just a temporary place keeper for Norton, a connection to its storied past to say, "hey, Norton used to produce air-cooled classic motorcycles like this, everyone, if you like classics, we have one." However, Norton's real future is more focused on the likes of the V4 multi-cylinder models, and yes, the EVs.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I get your point mate, although I can’t remember reading the ‘ICE not the future’ quote from Norton (probably missed it),
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Here’s the article where they clearly state the Atlas was ‘shelved in order to focus on future electric models’ .

And also that we will ‘see more combustion engined machines from the firm’.

Its an incoherent argument !

Perhaps the real reason is just too embarrassing, ie that SG screwed them with engine rights belonging elsewhere, etc ?


norton atlas
norton atlas
norton atlas
 
I smell badge engineering!

They made copy of the new factory's capacity, how long can it lie (relatively) idle??
 
BritTwit said:
You may be assuming too much.
The fact that they think the Atlas line is "not the future" may have nothing to do with its ICE pedigree.
Norton may believe:
1. Twins are not the future for the company.
2. Retro styled new models are not the future for the company.

Yes we know that Norton will design and build new EVs, yada, yada, yada.......
Norton may be looking at a multi-cylinder future for their new ICE line. A line that will help them close the performance gap with other manufacturers.

The 961 is just a temporary place keeper for Norton, a connection to its storied past to say, "hey, Norton used to produce air-cooled classic motorcycles like this, everyone, if you like classics, we have one." However, Norton's real future is more focused on the likes of the V4 multi-cylinder models, and yes, the EVs.
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Once again.
TVS is following SG bike line.

Sg started with the 961 to get company interest and revenue. Then step it up to other models.
 
I think in the main guys we are in furious agreement - although there are plenty of assumptions in there as you would expect. We are never going to get all of the information on all decions made by Norton. They are a commercial organisation, with a brand to protect and at times unpopular decisions to make. There is always going to be politics, especially I guess so early in Norton’s re-re-birth.

Yes of course bike manufacture is heading towards EV, but like many I believe that full EV is years down the track for reasons oft discussed. In the interim, bike manufacturers will introduce EV models into an ICE lineup - what other choice do they have. I don’t think Norton are saying anything different although they may be more EV aspirational than some, or are biasing their language in that direction to attract government/other funding.

Another hypothesis about the Atlas - Norton are obviously planning and may well have looked at the potential line-up of legacy Donnington bikes and future models and decided that something had to give in order to progress with an EV model. The Atlas may have been dropped as part of that process, along with other potential reasons discussed. Not incoherent depending on how you choose to interpret the (little) information presented.

I think Norton re-introduced the 961 because: it is a beautiful, characterful bike; was 98% complete; (relatively) quickly extends the model line-up; puts down a quality marker and because, above all, they believe that it will sell. They have spent a lot of time and money re-engineering it to be just a place keeper or retro side option - they’ll want it to sell and if it does they‘ll build more/similar bikes cos that’s what commercial organisation do. Same with the V4. IMO Norton will build ICE models (twins and multi’s) whilst developing an EV bike and will go where the market takes them - follow the money as they say. If the EV models take off and they find a strong enough market, no doubt they will ditch ICE models without much of a thought to the history of Norton.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I think in the main guys we are in furious agreement - although there are plenty of assumptions in there as you would expect. We are never going to get all of the information on all decions made by Norton. They are a commercial organisation, with a brand to protect and at times unpopular decisions to make. There is always going to be politics, especially I guess so early in Norton’s re-re-birth.

Yes of course bike manufacture is heading towards EV, but like many I believe that full EV is years down the track for reasons oft discussed. In the interim, bike manufacturers will introduce EV models into an ICE lineup - what other choice do they have. I don’t think Norton are saying anything different although they may be more EV aspirational than some, or are biasing their language in that direction to attract government/other funding.

Another hypothesis about the Atlas - Norton are obviously planning and may well have looked at the potential line-up of legacy Donnington bikes and future models and decided that something had to give in order to progress with an EV model. The Atlas may have been dropped as part of that process, along with other potential reasons discussed. Not incoherent depending on how you choose to interpret the (little) information presented.

I think Norton re-introduced the 961 because: it is a beautiful, characterful bike; was 98% complete; (relatively) quickly extends the model line-up; puts down a quality marker and because, above all, they believe that it will sell. They have spent a lot of time and money re-engineering it to be just a place keeper or retro side option - they’ll want it to sell and if it does they‘ll build more/similar bikes cos that’s what commercial organisation do. Same with the V4. IMO Norton will build ICE models (twins and multi’s) whilst developing an EV bike and will go where the market takes them - follow the money as they say. If the EV models take off and they find a strong enough market, no doubt they will ditch ICE models without much of a thought to the history of Norton.
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Just curious.

What do you eat for breakfast? I need some.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
I think in the main guys we are in furious agreement - although there are plenty of assumptions in there as you would expect. We are never going to get all of the information on all decions made by Norton. They are a commercial organisation, with a brand to protect and at times unpopular decisions to make. There is always going to be politics, especially I guess so early in Norton’s re-re-birth.

Yes of course bike manufacture is heading towards EV, but like many I believe that full EV is years down the track for reasons oft discussed. In the interim, bike manufacturers will introduce EV models into an ICE lineup - what other choice do they have. I don’t think Norton are saying anything different although they may be more EV aspirational than some, or are biasing their language in that direction to attract government/other funding.

Another hypothesis about the Atlas - Norton are obviously planning and may well have looked at the potential line-up of legacy Donnington bikes and future models and decided that something had to give in order to progress with an EV model. The Atlas may have been dropped as part of that process, along with other potential reasons discussed. Not incoherent depending on how you choose to interpret the (little) information presented.

I think Norton re-introduced the 961 because: it is a beautiful, characterful bike; was 98% complete; (relatively) quickly extends the model line-up; puts down a quality marker and because, above all, they believe that it will sell. They have spent a lot of time and money re-engineering it to be just a place keeper or retro side option - they’ll want it to sell and if it does they‘ll build more/similar bikes cos that’s what commercial organisation do. Same with the V4. IMO Norton will build ICE models (twins and multi’s) whilst developing an EV bike and will go where the market takes them - follow the money as they say. If the EV models take off and they find a strong enough market, no doubt they will ditch ICE models without much of a thought to the history of Norton.
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Stephen,
If you read Nortons actual words, the argument is incoherent.
It’s not my assumption that they dropped the Atlas BECAUSE of their focus on EV. It’s their words.
And neither is my assumption that they simultaneously say they’re are going to introduce new ICEs along side their EVs… it’s their words.
You can’t argue you’re dropping an entire ICE line up due to the fact you’re focusing on EVs and then also say you‘re going to keep making, and introducing new, ICEs.
The incoherence is right there in their words, not in my assumptions.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Stephen,
If you read Nortons actual words, the argument is incoherent.
It’s not my assumption that they dropped the Atlas BECAUSE of their focus on EV. It’s their words.
And neither is my my assumption that they say they simultaneously are going to introduce new ICEs along side their EVs… it’s their words.
You can’t argue you’re dropping an entire ICE line up due to the fact you’re focusing on EVs and then also say you‘re going to keep making, and introducing new, ICEs.
The incoherence is right there in their words, not in my assumptions.
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His belief is “wishful thinking”.

Just yesterday he called me a closet antagonist :D
 
Fast Eddie said:
Here’s the article where they clearly state the Atlas was ‘shelved in order to focus on future electric models’ .

And also that we will ‘see more combustion engined machines from the firm’.

Its an incoherent argument !

Perhaps the real reason is just too embarrassing, ie that SG screwed them with engine rights belonging elsewhere, etc ?


View attachment 100594View attachment 100595View attachment 100596
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Doesn't Gladwell look like Keanu ? At today's exchange rate the cost of a 961 Sport is exactly what I paid in USA back in 2013 = $18,000 ? What do you make of that , some 9 years later ?
 
Fast Eddie said:
Stephen,
If you read Nortons actual words, the argument is incoherent.
It’s not my assumption that they dropped the Atlas BECAUSE of their focus on EV. It’s their words.
And neither is my assumption that they simultaneously say they’re are going to introduce new ICEs along side their EVs… it’s their words.
You can’t argue you’re dropping an entire ICE line up due to the fact you’re focusing on EVs and then also say you‘re going to keep making, and introducing new, ICEs.
The incoherence is right there in their words, not in my assumptions.
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So statements from the factory have been confusing.
I think TVS/Norton have to hire some Philadelphia lawyers to prepare their press releases.
We Norton fans on this site take everything they say and parse/analyze it to death.
I didn't interpret "focus on EVs" to mean - no more ICE development.
Just that they will be spending most of their energies developing new technology EVs.
They didn't say that they would do this to the total exclusion of ICE development.

Sometimes it's what you don't say that causes problems.
 
BritTwit said:
I didn't interpret "focus on EVs" to mean - no more ICE development.
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Neither did I !

They DID say that their focus on EVs was the reason for killing the Atlas. No over analysing done there at all.

And I agree, they absolutely did NOT say that they would focus on EVs to the exclusion of ICE development… but that is my entire point… in that case, why did their focus on EVs kill the Atlas ??
 
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TonyA said:
Doesn't Gladwell look like Keanu ? At today's exchange rate the cost of a 961 Sport is exactly what I paid in USA back in 2013 = $18,000 ? What do you make of that , some 9 years later ?
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I think Gladwell is far too attractive to be COO of a motorcycle company!

And I think the price is good when compared to the SG pricing and considering both inflation and the improvements made.
 
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'We're not looking to make an electric motorcycle......'

Sounds ominous!!!! IF it has two wheels and is electric, what is it? Please, NOT a Norton scooter!!

Given BMW already market a 'lightweight' range around the TVS 310 single cylinder lump, might we see Norton 'lightweights' too? 'Jubilee' perhaps? Will use of that name upset the purists?
 
Or, the only bike that actually looks like a Norton is the 961. It’s a nostalgia brand, and that is what they were buying - the brand.

The 961 is logical to build as it ties to the histor9ical look, which in turn reinforces the brand.

My bet is merchandise ramps hard before any other bike.
 
Gojuu said:
Or, the only bike that actually looks like a Norton is the 961. It’s a nostalgia brand, and that is what they were buying - the brand.

The 961 is logical to build as it ties to the histor9ical look, which in turn reinforces the brand.

My bet is merchandise ramps hard before any other bike.
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I was watching a video of the BMW 310 vs the comparable TVS model..... Even though the TVS was slightly better equipped and cheaper, the reviewer admitted that the most valuable thing on the BMW was the name on the side....
 
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