Norton 2009

I had posted a question on another topic item on this site, but am not sure it got seen by many. I have read in a couple of publications about the return of Norton to England and the claims of Mr. Stuart Garner about the building of a facility in Donington, UK, and production beginning sometime this year. Since these articles are by now a few months old, I am wondering if anyone in the UK, perhaps near Donington Park, has an update on any progress that is being made by Mr. Garner. He comments about building and selling both an updated Dreer Commando and a rotary for the public by mid-year seems to be quite a leap. Even with deep pockets, it took Mr. Bloor many years to get Triumph into production. The Dreer Commando appeared to need a number of updates, and require additional testing. Nonetheless, I hope he is successful. I am just fearful of another unhappy ending for the Norton name.

last i heard in MCN was the bikes had been shipped over from america and they were going to start work. if the factory has been built or being built im not sure.

there was also talk of racing Rotary bike in a new moto gp 600 class when its introduced in a few years.

i hope it happens, as long as it doesnt make the price of things like norvils/colorado norton etc go through the roof.

Well, Matt Rambow is about to release a fuel injection package, hydraulic clutch actuator package, custom built head, electronic instrumentation package, and other good new stuff; all stuff very similar to what would have appeared on the Dreer Norton. Fred Eaton ought to have his new starter package out any day now. I'm sure Kenny's work stirred a few minds to get with the program, and others to get off thier butts.

The new Norton folks can't possibly get than 951 out by mid-year, or I'll... Well, I don't know what I'll do.

Here's a link to Garner's company:

http://www.nortonracing.com/

A fair amount of info here, but time will tell how much is 'fluff' and how much is 'stuff'

i live 5 miles from donnington and being a life long Norton fan from my first interstate new for £666 on the road all the way to a VR880 and a CNW Norton i have kept an eye on the story which i suspect has a few more turns to go ,latest news he has entered a rotary for the TT and has recieved 3 half finished bikes and a load of spares and starting to build. as i said to kenny years ago the only way to make money building bikes is to keep it very very small or very very big, as mr bloor has discovered it is rumoured he blew 79 million before he went in to profit ........
Another problem nobody under 40 has heard of the name !!!
Mick Duckworth has written the story so far in his admirable book well worth a read .

Richard Barks

Norton Motors statement, from 1st November 2008: http://www.nortonmotors.co.uk/news.htm

Thanks to all for the comments and info. Richard, sound like you are at ground zero. I have heard of the 80 million figure for Bloor and Triumph, too. I thought it was pounds, which would have been $130M U.S. Staggering, really, when you think it was paid privately. I suspect even Mr. Bloor, for all the business savy he posesses, didn't plan on spending that much. That and a bunch of Rolaids. Hope he has gotten it back plus some. It's hard to fathom the Norton project getting off the ground, at least very far, let alone to something that Bloor has done. I hope I am dead wrong.

I'd look for a figure far north of $130 million for Norton to be successful. Probably have to add another zero. I don't think the manufacturing is the big hurdle. That's probably the least of the problems. I think marketing is where the big cost is. Establishing a dealer network is mandatory, too. I think Kenny Dreer developed a nice bike, but I don't think he was very realistic about the money needed to become a successful motorcycle manufacturer. Venture capital probably could of been found for his venture, but he would of had to give away a big share to obtain it. That's how that game works. I know. I've been there.

Cheesehead Commando said:

Thanks to all for the comments and info. Richard, sound like you are at ground zero. I have heard of the 80 million figure for Bloor and Triumph, too. I thought it was pounds, which would have been $130M U.S. Staggering, really, when you think it was paid privately. I suspect even Mr. Bloor, for all the business savy he posesses, didn't plan on spending that much. That and a bunch of Rolaids. Hope he has gotten it back plus some. It's hard to fathom the Norton project getting off the ground, at least very far, let alone to something that Bloor has done. I hope I am dead wrong.

Click to expand...

Bloor turned a profit around the year 2000. Supposedly, he outbid Enfield of India by a little under a million Pounds for Triumph back in '83, and went to work building a new facility in Hinckley, while licensing Bonnevilles to Harris, who built continuation Bonnies until Hinckley came on line. Production of Hinckley Triumphs began in late 1989, and took about 10 years from there for Bloor to recover his investment.

As I stated here months ago, if Norton becomes a viable concern, it would probably be in their best interest to seek distribution through the Triumph network of dealers. 40 years ago, Ford sold DeTomasos through their existing network of Lincoln-Mercury dealers, and GM sold Opels in the US through their Buick dealers. Of course, Ford had a large stake in DeTomaso at the time, and GM owns Opel, but Norton and Triumph have historic links.


It would be incredibly difficult for Norton to set up a dealer network from scratch, and I can't see Norton partnering with any other motorcycle manufacturer for distribution.

I don't see Bloor sharing his dealer network with ANYONE, let alone a direct competitor.

If this Gardner dude has deep pockets, he can make it happen, but it's likely to take him longer than 10 years to turn a profit.

The way the economy is going around the world I would think its going to be a challenge to say the least. I hope it works out but I think this is not the right time to invest to much in it.

grandpaul said:

I don't see Bloor sharing his dealer network with ANYONE, let alone a direct competitor.

If this Gardner dude has deep pockets, he can make it happen, but it's likely to take him longer than 10 years to turn a profit.

Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that Mr Bloor would give anything away, but if it made good business sense for Triumph to have some sort distribution arrangement for Norton, I think it would happen.

I agree with the longer than ten years, too. Triumph didn't start making money until they were turning out around 20,000 units a year, and they're running at about 45,000 annually now.

I don't see Norton selling 20,000 units a year. Maybe a few hundred a year until the brand is built back up, and then maybe a few thousand.

Hinckley Triumph's best-selling model is the Speed Triple, which they've been making since 1994. It has taken 15 years for them to make 50,000, and the model has gone through 4 redesigns, with the engine going from 750 to 1050cc. This is equivalent to Norton going from the 500 Dominator through to the 750 Commando, which they did in about 15 years.

Can this new company do this kind of development? Will they have the money, knowledge, and luck to pull it off?