NOC Factory Record Certifcate

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Has anyone ordered a Factory Record Certificate? I was wondering what you get for your 25 pounds .
 
Niagara850 said:
Has anyone ordered a Factory Record Certificate? I was wondering what you get for your 25 pounds .

Yes, they were able to tell me the day it was built, it's original colour and the model. They did say "We don't have much information for your Commando, it depends who was guiding the pen at the time" so may well be more info on your bike. It's a free service for members ( £17 a year membership I think, including monthly roadholder magazine).
Hope this helps

McVic
 
Its no longer a free service for members.
New Policy ? - if you want details of your bike, you get the certificate.

If you want bare details of something you were investigating buying, yes its free.
Apparently the Records Officer was being swamped with requests for way more than the bare details. (Being computerized, you'd think it was easy ?).
 
I'm starting to get the impression that after using its membership to put in thousands of unpaid hours compiling the factory records database, the NOC is now sitting there like Gollum with the ring and is more than reluctant to give out information to those who actually did the donkey-work.

The UK is a peculiar situation in that the owners clubs are officially recognised by the licensing authority for providing dating letters and this has made them a desirable source of income.

The factory records themselves are a public resource (they are owned by the VMCC and can be consulted by visitors) It's quite easy to look up most of the post war models as they were numbered in build order. The real value of the database is in sorting out the random entries of the earlier stuff but as Rohan says, computerisation should make it quick and simple to answer the most obscure questions. Perhaps they need some volunteers to deal with non-official enquiries ? ...Me ! ...Me ! :) .
 
Not quite so easy. Firstly, all that is "owned" by the VMCC is a copy of the microfilms. I have another copy. Secondly, everything is in numerical order, including the pre-war records. However, pre-war chassis and engine numbers were not identical, and only the engine numbers are in numerical order. Chassis were aparently allocated at random- I am told the frames were stored at Shelly's across the road, stamped with a frame number, and carted over to Norton Motors Ltd as needed. Finding a chassis number is a nightmare. I looked througfh 4 months of production for a friend to find the engine of his International was supplied to Ireland in one bike whilst his chassis, with a different engine, was supplied to the US.
I also have original despatch books of Commandos, which are NOT on the film. Unfortunately, I don't have the complete set, so 850 Mk2s are missing.
Joe Seifert
 
Here is a response from a recent records request
At least they refund if they cant help .

Thank you for the enquiry regarding your Norton Commando.

I am sorry to say that some of the factory records in the latter years of Norton are very vague.

I cannot tell you anything that you don't already know, so I am arranging for the treasurer to refund your money.

Apologies for this but if the factory scribe didn't write anything down in the ledgers, we can't help much.

Regards, Dave Catton,
Norton Owners Club
 
Rohan said:
Its no longer a free service for members.
New Policy ? - if you want details of your bike, you get the certificate.

Thanks for the correction your absolutely correct. Must be fairly recent policy change I got for free end of last year.

McVic
 
ZFD said:
Not quite so easy. Firstly, all that is "owned" by the VMCC is a copy of the microfilms. I have another copy. Secondly, everything is in numerical order, including the pre-war records. However, pre-war chassis and engine numbers were not identical, and only the engine numbers are in numerical order. Chassis were aparently allocated at random- I am told the frames were stored at Shelly's across the road, stamped with a frame number, and carted over to Norton Motors Ltd as needed. Finding a chassis number is a nightmare. I looked througfh 4 months of production for a friend to find the engine of his International was supplied to Ireland in one bike whilst his chassis, with a different engine, was supplied to the US.
I also have original despatch books of Commandos, which are NOT on the film. Unfortunately, I don't have the complete set, so 850 Mk2s are missing.
Joe Seifert

The VMCC have the original ledgers dating back to the early 1920s, as well as a set of the microfilm that they had when the books were still at the Science Museum. They also have the BSA ledgers, Meriden Triumph (nothing before the Luftwaffe destroyed the Coventry records) and I think some Matchless and Ariel .

These are large, dusty leather bound volumes and I feel a little bit guilty every time I open one. I have photographed much of the pre-war stuff that interested me but the pages are so large that it is difficult to get all the sub-copperplate handwriting in focus.

Pre-war is indeed in engine number order. The other components can be quite random but frames can generally be found quite quickly in the actual books, certainly of the more standard models. I wouldn't decribe finding frames or even gearboxes a 'nightmare'. I rather enjoy it ! :? I find the film copies quite time-consuming to look through.

It's the real thing :-

NOC Factory Record Certifcate


I don't know how much truth there is in the story that these books actually ended up in a skip at Andover but luckily were seen and saved.

Joe, if you have Mk111 850 records, would there be any chance of looking mine up for me ? it's not on the film records.
 
Can do. What #? May take a few days. Got a couple of companies to run, and the records are more like a private hobby- nothing to do with the commercial side of things. A bit like my racing Nortons, restoring Nortons, riding Nortons........ I find the microfilms a bit of a strugggle, and just had a page that wasn't in focus so my eyes boggled and I was still not sure if I had deciphered the information for my friend's bike correctly. Only one page so far, all the others are fine, bar the ones where the original book was obviously damaged or smeared.
Joe
 
Fortunately when I had to correct the vehicle ownership to the bike it was fairly easy (the last number was a 3 not 6 ) I had to have it appraised in order to insure it. The lady at the MOT was quite helpful. She called the Appraiser while I was at the office, verified the change and corrected the ownership record online and printed a new one off. The Appraiser is registed by the MOT

I am curious as to the build date and orginal colour, what dealer it was shipped to etc. I could put together a nice record for the bike including its 2 previous owners. just have to decide if its worth $40 Cdn. It would be interesting to run both numbers and see what comes up. It would verify the PO's story as well. Does anyone else have the 850 Mk2 records?
 
On the subject that all 750s remained in their 1972 form to the end (model year 1973), I spoke to my friend Rudi who rebuilds Commando engines for customers constantly, and has probably rebuilt more Commando engines than anybody else in Germany. He confirms my claim that, whilst the parts list for the 1973 750 Commando seems unchanged from the 1972 list, the engines were actually different in the flesh, i.e. converted back to the gauze sump filter bolt and and a drainage system that worked. So, even though my engine (no.225...) is a genuine 750 shortstroke, the longstrokes also went back (or forward, depending how one chooses to see it) to the pre-1972 system that worked, and found its way into the 850 engines.
 
ZFD said:
On the subject that all 750s remained in their 1972 form to the end (model year 1973), I spoke to my friend Rudi who rebuilds Commando engines for customers constantly, and has probably rebuilt more Commando engines than anybody else in Germany. He confirms my claim that, whilst the parts list for the 1973 750 Commando seems unchanged from the 1972 list, the engines were actually different in the flesh, i.e. converted back to the gauze sump filter bolt and and a drainage system that worked.

Perhaps Germany got a different '73 750 MkV model to the ROW? :wink:
It's certainly the first time I've ever heard it mentioned, and it seems to go against everything anyone has said before and it would also be in contradicton with the parts information on your own (Andover Norton) website!

Anyone got (or had) a '73 22**** serial number 750 standard stroke engine with the gauze sump filter?
 
Hi, I contacted VMCC in England and paid the fee and sent them my Bike's Info (1974 850 #315481), hoping to get a little "History" on the bike. Just got a refund for the Fee and an Email saying they don't have anything. Does that mean there are no records period? Or does it mean VMCC doesn't have them?
Thanks, MarkR
 
MarkR said:
Just got a refund for the Fee and an Email saying they don't have anything. Does that mean there are no records period? Or does it mean VMCC doesn't have them?

The VMCC doesn't appear to have much information on the 850 models, so I suggest you contact Andover Norton (or Joe Seifert, "ZFD" on this forum) as they have the surviving records for the 850 models although these records are also incomplete.
 
MarkR, going by the number yours is a MK2 so only the NOC have your record, ZDF is missing the MK2 book.
 
L.A.B. said:
ZFD said:
On the subject that all 750s remained in their 1972 form to the end (model year 1973), I spoke to my friend Rudi who rebuilds Commando engines for customers constantly, and has probably rebuilt more Commando engines than anybody else in Germany. He confirms my claim that, whilst the parts list for the 1973 750 Commando seems unchanged from the 1972 list, the engines were actually different in the flesh, i.e. converted back to the gauze sump filter bolt and and a drainage system that worked.

Perhaps Germany got a different '73 750 MkV model to the ROW? :wink:
It's certainly the first time I've ever heard it mentioned, and it seems to go against everything anyone has said before and it would also be in contradicton with the parts information on your own (Andover Norton) website!

Anyone got (or had) a '73 22**** serial number 750 standard stroke engine with the gauze sump filter?

My 220627 has the '72 type crankcase with no sump screen.
 
The UK is a peculiar situation in that the owners clubs are officially recognised by the licensing authority for providing dating letters and this has made them a desirable source of income.

As such a certificate from the NOC is useless in the US for registration purposes. The information is good only for information.
 
Some MK2 records, including my 310005 just plain don't exist - I tried VMCC, NOC (member of both) and Andover Norton - no one could help. On the bright side I can paint over the puke yellow tank and panels with any colour I like - JPN colours favourite at the moment but I'll see how I feel when the time (money) comes.
 
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