New to Norton. (Sort of)

Harry_J · Oct 10, 2023

Hi All,

I have an 850 commando in a box of bits that my dad gave to me, he is now 66 and has realised he will not get it built. We have decided to go for a 961 and knowing nothing about these new Norton's I wanted to ask a few questions.

I apologise if some of the stuff I ask has been covered on here, I have scoured the forum for information and found it to be very useful!

-When looking to buy a second had 961, what are the things to look out for?

-Are there any models/years that are better to look for? - we have been looking at a few low mileage 2017/2018 bikes. Have also seen 2010/2012 bikes with similar mileage.

-Any general advice/recommendations from owners.

The bike will be used for summer days out and no serious mileage, I'm pretty handy with a spanner and have no problems doing the maintenance and taking it to a Norton main dealer if needed. Would like to avoid any massive bills if possible when buying a second hand one..

I appreciate there is no certainty when buying anything second hand and from what I have read these bikes are not 'perfect' but they are a work of art and I would like to enjoy some days out with my dad in the coming years.. I have a 1980 Bonnie that I will dig out.

Thanks
Harry

TonyA · Oct 10, 2023

Harry_J said:
we have been looking at a few low mileage 2017/2018 bikes.

This might be a better choice than the real early 2010-11. I would say get a MK2 if you can , that would be 2016 and newer . 2018 may have been the best year for Donington , this is my opinion based on the condition of the business during this period. I have a November 2014 MK1 which I like a lot but have done a great deal of work to it. Hopefully others will give their opinion , don't be put off by the scary posts because the bike is quite special.

Harry_J · Oct 10, 2023

TonyA said:
This might be a better choice than the real early 2010-11. I would say get a MK2 if you can , that would be 2016 and newer . 2018 may have been the best year for Donington , this is my opinion based on the condition of the business during this period. I have a November 2014 MK1 which I like a lot but have done a great deal of work to it. Hopefully others will give their opinion , don't be put off by the scary posts because the bike is quite special.

Thanks for the reply Tony, as with the internet and anything there is always good and bad opinions. Based on the reading I have done I am looking at 2017/2018 bikes. As you say they are special and I plan to keep it a long time so don't mind doing some work on it. I just wanted to try and find a good one to start with.

BritTwit · Oct 10, 2023

Harry_J said:
Thanks for the reply Tony, as with the internet and anything there is always good and bad opinions. Based on the reading I have done I am looking at 2017/2018 bikes. As you say they are special and I plan to keep it a long time so don't mind doing some work on it. I just wanted to try and find a good one to start with.

Welcome to the forum.
Where are you located?
Think your best bet is probably a later model, as you have indicated.
The real early models where problematic to say the least. Although, many have been repaired under warranty, I would still steer clear of them. I have a 2013 CR which I love. We have a few member here who have extensive experience working on and repairing 961s, Stu and CG are two of the folks, they can give you guidance on what to watch out for.

My two cents, if you buy a late model you will probably get a OMEX ecu, an earlier model will have an SCS ecu. Stu and CG can explain the benefits, and drawbacks of each. Especially if you plan on a custom exhaust.

Cheers, and Happy shopping

Harry_J · Oct 10, 2023

BritTwit said:
Welcome to the forum.
Where are you located?
Think your best bet is probably a later model, as you have indicated.
The real early models where problematic to say the least. Although, many have been repaired under warranty, I would still steer clear of them. I have a 2013 CR which I love. We have a few member here who have extensive experience working on and repairing 961s, Stu and CG are two of the folks, they can give you guidance on what to watch out for.

My two cents, if you buy a late model you will probably get a OMEX ecu, an earlier model will have an SCS ecu. Stu and CG can explain the benefits, and drawbacks of each. Especially if you plan on a custom exhaust.

Cheers, and Happy shopping

Hey there - I am based in the South East of the UK!

I Find this forum really interesting, I thought buy a brand new Norton or at least a second hand one with low mileage what could go wrong?....haha In a way Norton have really brought back the classic biking industry in the fact that they are not perfect and mass produced. I thought the era of tinkering was dying (I'm 36 and I love messing around with old bikes and cars). It seems that these new ones need a bit of fettling and there are plenty of mods that can be done to refine them.

Since my dad will be doing the riding and I will be doing the spannering I thought worth doing some research. I think he will leave it as it comes and just enjoy the bike.

BritTwit · Oct 10, 2023

Well, your dad is a lucky man indeed.

TonyA · Oct 10, 2023

Harry_J said:
Hey there - I am based in the South East of the UK!

There are members of this forum that live in that area .

Fast Eddie · Oct 10, 2023

BritTwit said:
Welcome to the forum.
Where are you located?
Think your best bet is probably a later model, as you have indicated.
The real early models where problematic to say the least. Although, many have been repaired under warranty, I would still steer clear of them. I have a 2013 CR which I love. We have a few member here who have extensive experience working on and repairing 961s, Stu and CG are two of the folks, they can give you guidance on what to watch out for.

My two cents, if you buy a late model you will probably get a OMEX ecu, an earlier model will have an SCS ecu. Stu and CG can explain the benefits, and drawbacks of each. Especially if you plan on a custom exhaust.

Cheers, and Happy shopping

There’s your answer mate, your in the U.K. So talk to Stu and whatever you buy take it to him for a thorough going through and you should be a happy Nortoner !

Harry_J · Oct 11, 2023

Fast Eddie said:
There’s your answer mate, your in the U.K. So talk to Stu and whatever you buy take it to him for a thorough going through and you should be a happy Nortoner !

Awesome - that sounds like a great idea I will get in contact with Stu. Thanks all appreciate the advice!

kommando · Oct 11, 2023

Speak to Stu before buying and ask if he has serviced the bike.

comet · Oct 11, 2023

Harry_J said:
Hey there - I am based in the South East of the UK!

I Find this forum really interesting, I thought buy a brand new Norton or at least a second hand one with low mileage what could go wrong?...

I'm not sure if you are still looking at low mileage, but if you are looking at second-hand I would be inclined to go for one with at least a couple of thousand miles. I've seen 961s for sale with just a few hundred miles and it's less likely that the problems would have manifested themselves in that time. Mine is a 2013 model and it had some major issues in the first 2000 miles, dropped cylinder liners, clutch, to name a couple. These were resolved by the factory so I now have the Nikasil lined bores and a later clutch.

Another point to consider is that regardless of the model year, some of the problems that have been experienced could be attributed to the quality of the build(er) rather than the components. There was a lack of quality control in the build process which resulted in random avoidable problems. One forum member had the front disk bolts come undone because they hadn't been torqued. You will see a number of posts about oil in the airbox, with various methods of addressing this. I have never had that problem with mine. I did have my side-stand snap off at the weld in the first week (luckily I hadn't let go of the handlebars) and I haven't heard of anyone else experiencing that one. That doesn't help you in choosing one, I'm just pointing out that due to the lack of QA/QC procedures the model year isn't a guarantee of improved quality (apart from some improved components) and I suspect that things were getting tighter towards the end.

A quote from Stuart Garner in 2015 sums up the approach "My design team know that making a great motorbike is complicated but when I had a meeting with those guys, my approach was 'just press the 'make' button, boys'."

Harry_J · Oct 11, 2023

comet said:
I'm not sure if you are still looking at low mileage, but if you are looking at second-hand I would be inclined to go for one with at least a couple of thousand miles. I've seen 961s for sale with just a few hundred miles and it's less likely that the problems would have manifested themselves in that time. Mine is a 2013 model and it had some major issues in the first 2000 miles, dropped cylinder liners, clutch, to name a couple. These were resolved by the factory so I now have the Nikasil lined bores and a later clutch.

Another point to consider is that regardless of the model year, some of the problems that have been experienced could be attributed to the quality of the build(er) rather than the components. There was a lack of quality control in the build process which resulted in random avoidable problems. One forum member had the front disk bolts come undone because they hadn't been torqued. You will see a number of posts about oil in the airbox, with various methods of addressing this. I have never had that problem with mine. I did have my side-stand snap off at the weld in the first week (luckily I hadn't let go of the handlebars) and I haven't heard of anyone else experiencing that one. That doesn't help you in choosing one, I'm just pointing out that due to the lack of QA/QC procedures the model year isn't a guarantee of improved quality (apart from some improved components) and I suspect that things were getting tighter towards the end.

A quote from Stuart Garner in 2015 sums up the approach "My design team know that making a great motorbike is complicated but when I had a meeting with those guys, my approach was 'just press the 'make' button, boys

So by low mileage we are considering 3 -5k ish mileage. Exactly as you said to avoid one with such low mileage that the gremlins have not come to light yet.

That quote from Garner is priceless

comet · Oct 11, 2023

Harry_J said:
So by low mileage we are considering 3 -5k ish mileage. Exactly as you said to avoid one with such low mileage that the gremlins have not come to light yet.

That quote from Garner is priceless

That sort of mileage should have flushed out the problems that your father is likely to encounter. There are other things that have gone wrong at much higher mileages but it sounds like your father won't be using it as much as that. And as others have said, get it checked over by Stuart at Motorvated.

TonyA · Oct 11, 2023

Harry_J said:
So by low mileage we are considering 3 -5k ish mileage. Exactly as you said to avoid one with such low mileage that the gremlins have not come to light yet.

That quote from Garner is priceless

I would look at all bikes in your price range , with low mileages too . If the bike is taken to Stu Motorvated , he will look at clutch/ring gear , counterbalancer spring/gear , replace all sensors , coil pack etc ... What I am saying is get the best bike you can , regardless of year or mileage. Some folk just didn't ride because they were afraid , maybe of nothing ? If you can afford brand new TVS 961 consider that too ! Take the test rides new or used and you decide which feels best etc.. If you buy brand new , after warranty still take it to Stu for a check out service. I understand that the clutch has been improved on the brand new TVS 961 bikes.

jan nelder · Oct 11, 2023

I would also ask Stu if he has bikes that he has ‘in stock’ that he has been through and are for sale.

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF · Oct 11, 2023

My bikes got almost 33k on the clock now , done 8,000 miles in last two years since it was last serviced ,starts & runs fine , oh & last guy that serviced it was Stuart B , so there your have it , seek advice & guidance from the “ Go to “ guy , he will know who’s selling , failing that u may need Divine intervention ,good to take yer bike to church on Sundays & pray for it ( didn’t help when a clutch spring broke though )

TonyA · Oct 11, 2023

BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
My bikes got almost 33k on the clock now , done 8,000 miles in last two years since it was last serviced ,starts & runs fine , oh & last guy that serviced it was Stuart B , so there your have it , seek advice & guidance from the “ Go to “ guy , he will know who’s selling , failing that u may need Divine intervention ,good to take yer bike to church on Sundays & pray for it ( didn’t help when a clutch spring broke though ) View attachment 110295

Good on you Richard ! I am at 20,900 miles on the clock now.

jan nelder · Oct 12, 2023

my mate keeps his bikes in an ex-chapel next to the house, so they could get a free ‘service’ anytime.....

Stephen_Spencer · Oct 12, 2023

All good advice there Harry.

For me, if the new model were an option I would seriously consider it. With re-engineered aspects supported by a two year warranty this may well be the most trouble free option. Noting also that any Donington bike purchased may take work/time/cost to resolve to the required standard.

Also consider model type carefully. Your old man may struggle a bit with the Cafe Racer into the future - it may not be the best choice if he’s thinking of it. Vital for him to test ride I would say. The CR has quite a radical riding position. Depends on the type of riding he will be doing of course.

If it’s true and only 250 are to be made then the Birmingham 961 will likely hold value (and maybe appreciate) better than Donington bikes and will be more sought after in the future, when this beautiful bike is no longer available. Doubtless it will be viewed by the biking fraternity as the final and only group of 961‘s that were correctly resolved. Of course a well fettled Donington bike is also a great option.

Good luck with the purchase. The 961 is well worth the effort!

!

DODGY DEN · Oct 12, 2023

Harry_J said:
Hi All,

I have an 850 commando in a box of bits that my dad gave to me, he is now 66 and has realised he will not get it built. We have decided to go for a 961 and knowing nothing about these new Norton's I wanted to ask a few questions.

I apologise if some of the stuff I ask has been covered on here, I have scoured the forum for information and found it to be very useful!

-When looking to buy a second had 961, what are the things to look out for?

-Are there any models/years that are better to look for? - we have been looking at a few low mileage 2017/2018 bikes. Have also seen 2010/2012 bikes with similar mileage.

-Any general advice/recommendations from owners.

The bike will be used for summer days out and no serious mileage, I'm pretty handy with a spanner and have no problems doing the maintenance and taking it to a Norton main dealer if needed. Would like to avoid any massive bills if possible when buying a second hand one..

I appreciate there is no certainty when buying anything second hand and from what I have read these bikes are not 'perfect' but they are a work of art and I would like to enjoy some days out with my dad in the coming years.. I have a 1980 Bonnie that I will dig out.

Thanks
Harry

I will be taking delivery of a new TVS 961 next week and you can squeeze the dealers to get a good deal. Probably the better option if you intend to keep as you will get service and spares. This was one of my requirements. Good luck.