New Projects

Rodney Heaton · Apr 17, 2020

kommando said:
You can get them recoated, in the UK this would be by

http://www.langcourt.com/index.html

Who also have a US branch.

They would look at the bore and evaluate before either replating to std or going for an oversize after boring out the alloy barrel and replating to suit.

Langcourt closed the US operation to retail customers in 2017. There are only three Nikasil plating companies in the US. You are spot on about the repair process.

worntorn · Apr 17, 2020

The sulphur/nikasil issue mentioned earlier was addressed for North America but not the rest of the world.
Here is a link to a map showing sulphur in gasoline levels for the world in 2018.
UK and Europe are in the extremely low 0-10 level as is NZ while Australia might have a problem, although the fuel there is still relatively low in sulphur at 51-150ppm.

For comparison, in the 90s before the move to low sulphur fuels, gasoline's average sulphur content was 320 ppm in North America.

https://www.fuelseurope.eu/interactive-graph/maximum-gasoline-sulphur-limits-2018/

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 17, 2020

Just to add some additional information about billet Nikasil coated cylinders. We have made over 100 Triumph T140 cylinders over the last two years. Nikasil coated, no problems so far. So we are not new at making billet cylinders

Fast Eddie · Apr 17, 2020

Those Triumph barrels look like they need testing too John, send a set of 10 stud short rod barrels over and I’ll get on it right away ...

jseng1 · Apr 17, 2020

FA head upgrade - provide them with re-angled intake guides and seats for readily available 1.5mm oversize Kibblewhite valves.

marinatlas · Apr 17, 2020

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/nikasil-coated-aluminum-norton-cylinders.20161/

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 17, 2020

jseng1 said:
FA head upgrade - provide them with re-angled intake guides and seats for readily available 1.5mm oversize Kibblewhite valves.

Jim

For now we will be basically making a standard head. I believe there is a larger market for this product than modified for performance heads. I need to get these in production and make some money. Trick stuff will come later, as I am an end user of performance components (I have your cams in my race bikes) When I do have the time to mess with performance changes, you will be seeing a PM from me, because I would like your help in configuring the components

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 17, 2020

marinatlas said:
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/nikasil-coated-aluminum-norton-cylinders.20161/

I read through this thread from 2015. Most of the opinions are exactly opposite of my experience. As I have noted earlier, Stan Keyes and I both run Maney cylinders with alum liners that have a Nikasil coating. We did this because when running the same cylinders with the cast iron liners we could never get more than half of a race season before loosing compression and power due to ring wear. Millennium Technologies did the coating. They also used torque plates we provided to do the finish honing of the bores. I am entering my 4th year of using this cylinder on my Seeley Commando race bike. All we have done to freshen the motor is put in new rings. This year we did not even do that ( only raced half the season last year) Over the winter we did normal compression and leak down tests and did not take the head off. This is a 750 motor, with billet cases, Rob Hall ported Full Auto head, aforementioned modified Maney cylinders, JS Motorsport Cams, TT 5 speed, ect, that produces 65 HP on the dyno. It has run for 4 years with only change of the rings twice. Stan Keyes can confirm this

There are many "experts" on this site, many of which I respect, but it is very difficult to balance their opinion against my experience. So, I will let the Access Norton community know what we are working on, when finished and tested, it will be your option on whether you want to buy the product or not.

Rodney Heaton · Apr 17, 2020

marinatlas said:
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/nikasil-coated-aluminum-norton-cylinders.20161/

This thread is about making aluminum cylinder liners. That is completely different than what John's cylinders are. There were some valid concerns in this string and few solutions were mentioned. However, there ARE solutions to some of the concerns presented in that string. There is also some incorrect information. If it is the consensus, I can discuss some of this.

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 17, 2020

Rodney Heaton said:
This thread is about making aluminum cylinder liners. That is completely different than what John's cylinders are. There were some valid concerns in this string and few solutions were mentioned. However, there ARE solutions to some of the concerns presented in that string. There is also some incorrect information. If it is the consensus, I can discuss some of this.

Correct Rod, but I have pointed out to readers that this is exactly what Millennium did for me on the Maney cylinders. And you did a great job. I have never had a bike as reliable as my Seeley, and it was not reliable before we changed the liners in the Maney cylinders. Alum Nikasil liners (or in my most recent case, billet alum cylinders) can be done, PERIOD. If you have a set of Aluminum Maney cylinders and want to decrease piston clearance tolerances by putting in alum Nikasil liners, send them to Rob at Millinium. He does excellent work

Madnorton · Apr 18, 2020

t ingermanson said:
What are the chances of pre-Commando (Dominator) barrels? They have gotten very thin on the ground.

Will be starting to machine some once this virus is out of the way. These will be the Hemmings aluminium version but cast iron.

Fast Eddie · Apr 18, 2020

Madnorton said:
Will be starting to machine some once this virus is out of the way. These will be the Hemmings aluminium version but cast iron.

Why not cast the Hemmings aluminium version in, well, aluminium...?

Madnorton · Apr 18, 2020

Needed a liner and most owners want cast iron.

worntorn · Apr 18, 2020

Rodney Heaton said:
This thread is about making aluminum cylinder liners. That is completely different than what John's cylinders are. There were some valid concerns in this string and few solutions were mentioned. However, there ARE solutions to some of the concerns presented in that string. There is also some incorrect information. If it is the consensus, I can discuss some of this.

Please do discuss
Good to get the straight goods on this.

Thanks
Glen

t ingermanson · Apr 19, 2020

Madnorton said:
Will be starting to machine some once this virus is out of the way. These will be the Hemmings aluminium version but cast iron.

i'm waiting with bated breath.

cycoracing · Apr 19, 2020

G81 Can Cycle said:
I read through this thread from 2015. Most of the opinions are exactly opposite of my experience. As I have noted earlier, Stan Keyes and I both run Maney cylinders with alum liners that have a Nikasil coating. We did this because when running the same cylinders with the cast iron liners we could never get more than half of a race season before loosing compression and power due to ring wear. Millennium Technologies did the coating. They also used torque plates we provided to do the finish honing of the bores. I am entering my 4th year of using this cylinder on my Seeley Commando race bike. All we have done to freshen the motor is put in new rings. This year we did not even do that ( only raced half the season last year) Over the winter we did normal compression and leak down tests and did not take the head off. This is a 750 motor, with billet cases, Rob Hall ported Full Auto head, aforementioned modified Maney cylinders, JS Motorsport Cams, TT 5 speed, ect, that produces 65 HP on the dyno. It has run for 4 years with only change of the rings twice. Stan Keyes can confirm this

There are many "experts" on this site, many of which I respect, but it is very difficult to balance their opinion against my experience. So, I will let the Access Norton community know what we are working on, when finished and tested, it will be your option on whether you want to buy the product or not.

I have raced Commandos for over 30 years and the highest wear items has always been the steel cylinders and the valves. Not being able to run air filters accelerates the cylinder wear problem. Half way through the season the cylinders would have scratches and wear marks on them and have to be honed strait and new rings installed. A few 0f these and the clearances are too large and its time for a bore job and then time to have another 850 cylinder sleeved to 750. I have been through a lot of cylinders. The Maney aluminum cylinders were the same problem until we had them nikasiled. We went from .005 piston clearance to .0025 using the same long rod MAP pistons. after half a season the leak down was less than 5% . After the 20 race season we lapped in the valves and installed new rings even though the end gap was still perfect and the cylinders showed no signs of wear or any scratches. Another full season and the cylinders still look perfect on all three race bikes. Map hasn't been able to sell us any pistons for a few years because these don't seem to be wearing any. These cylinders should last forever in a street bike

jseng1 · Apr 19, 2020

I'll agree that Nikasil is a very attractive way to go.

I was put off by Comstock's comments that alum cylinders without iron liners distorted between the bores. So I made some tests with alloy Maney cylinders. I machined a disc with a step for rings to block light. Installed the rings and disc (see below). Put the cylinders in an oven at about 350 F deg. Pulled them out with the lights out (at night) and used a light underneath in the bore to look for leaks.

Depending on how hot the cylinders were - they stayed round or they distorted between the bores when hotter. Then I discovered that Millennium could do a hot hone. The hot hone option with bore plates might be the way to go if you want it perfect.

Then there is the matter of clearance. Pistons made with 4032 Alloy expand less for a tighter fit (.0025") in an alum cylinder.
Wiseco 4032 alloy piston below.

If you really want to get the clearance tight (like down to .001") and double the life of your pistons, then you need the graphite coating (below). You can coat the pistons so they wear in to fit to find the perfect clearance (line2line coatings).

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 19, 2020

cycoracing said:
I have raced Commandos for over 30 years and the highest wear items has always been the steel cylinders and the valves. Not being able to run air filters accelerates the cylinder wear problem. Half way through the season the cylinders would have scratches and wear marks on them and have to be honed strait and new rings installed. A few 0f these and the clearances are too large and its time for a bore job and then time to have another 850 cylinder sleeved to 750. I have been through a lot of cylinders. The Maney aluminum cylinders were the same problem until we had them nikasiled. We went from .005 piston clearance to .0025 using the same long rod MAP pistons. after half a season the leak down was less than 5% . After the 20 race season we lapped in the valves and installed new rings even though the end gap was still perfect and the cylinders showed no signs of wear or any scratches. Another full season and the cylinders still look perfect on all three race bikes. Map hasn't been able to sell us any pistons for a few years because these don't seem to be wearing any. These cylinders should last forever in a street bike

Cycoracing is Stan Keyes (and he is Cyco LOL) The cylinders he is describing are the other sets we had done when Millinium did the alum sleeving and Nikasil on the Maney cylinders for my Seeley. So our results are on multiple sets on Maney cylinders and multiple bikes. So we are not making an offer on new cylinders (billet in this case) that we have not done multi-year testing on the product

jseng1 · Apr 19, 2020

You don't have to prove them. They will prove themselves when you start producing them. Its long overdue.

G81 Can Cycle · Apr 20, 2020

jseng1 said:
You don't have to prove them. They will prove themselves when you start producing them. Its long overdue.

Introducing a new product on Access Norton has its draw backs. We introduce the product to get feedback with the knowledge that 20% of the feedback has a potential negative focus that I need to address. I think the cylinders will be well received in the market, but I guess time will tell. We have done some extensive testing of the process and we believe Millennium does a great job