New Owner of '68 Commando

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Time Warp said:
Its simply a poor design and failed in use for what ever reason.

Agreed, the underlying problem was the design of the frame.

Again, to quote Ken Sprayson:

Testing was to be carried out at the military vehicle proving ground at Chobham in Surrey. This had similar facilities to MIRA, including a Belgian pavé track on which the Commando would be tested. Tony [Dennis] suggested that I went along to see the tests. The outcome was conclusive - the original design only completed 23 laps before failure occurred. The best of the heavier top tubes managed 120 laps, whilst my modified design did over 400 laps with no problem. The modified frame was also subjected to the scrambles course, again without failure......

Whether the apparent rough handling of the crates did actually accelerate the rate of failures or not, I guess we will never know for sure, but: "induced weakness initiated by unsatisfactory crating and warehousing procedures" does seem to be the official explanation.


Time Warp said:
Where is the US court case of the day for compensation by Norton UK ?

No "court case" that I'm aware of, although a US recall was (eventually?) issued.

http://www.recallrecord.com/auto/norton ... ecalls.php
Norton campaign no n/a. Possibility that the large diameter top tube of the main frame, may fracture in service due to unusual conditions of use following an induced weakness initiated by unsatisfactory crating and warehousing procedures. (corrective action, on machines affected, within the series of engine numbers 126125 to 128634, the frame should be changed in accordance with the instructions given in the 750cc model workshop manual (part no. 063419). )

Time Warp said:
Who payed for the recalls ?

Norton, as far as I know.
 
Lets not forget that the bikes being discussed here were Fastbacks, crated out of Plumstead.

All the crated bike pics so far have been out of Wolverhampton.
Different factory, different folks, almost different owners... ??


L.A.B. said:
Rohan said:
Where all Nortons crated like that. ?

I don't know, but every crated Commando I've seen pictures of, has had the forks in place.

Here's another:
New Owner of '68 Commando
 
My memory is that crated bikes leaving Andover in 69/70 were as shown in the pictures, that is with the front wheel removed and stowed alongside and the bike "nose down" resting on the bottom of the forks.
To add another item for confusion, in 69/70 the bikes were fully assembled at the Andover factory, then transported to Thruxton where there was a final test and fault correction facility, totally separate from the racing set up. I can't remember if the bikes were ridden or trucked to Thruxton, but I suppose that it would make sense for them to be ridden, it would be about 7 or 8 miles I suppose, its been a long time. I know that there was a test loop from Thruxton, up the road a couple of miles to a roundabout and back to Thruxton. So I suppose that the test procedure would have gone something like
1/ Fully assembled at Andover
2/ Ridden to Thruxton any faults identified during trip, and documented on arrival.
3/ Faults corrected at Thruxton
4/ Test ridden on "loop" & back to Thruxton for rectification of any further faults
5/ If ok ridden back to Andover for packing and dispatch

I remember that they had a sizeable team of production test riders, one of whom was a good road racer, name of Tony Holland. I also have a vague memory of the locals dripping about "....the roads being full of bl**dy motorbikes". You would have thought that they would have been proud, but there we are.
cheers
wakeup
 
Nice memories, thanks.

Don't forget that the bikes being discussed here, with frame cracking problems, were built and crated out of Plumstead..
Where Matchless etc had been operating out of for nigh on 70 years....

They would have packed and shipped a few Dommies and P11s and G15's etc in those years...
 
I'm restoring a 68' Dunstall Commando and recently had the frame modified.

Before:
New Owner of '68 Commando


After:
New Owner of '68 Commando
 
Did the Widowmaker frame use a different format head steady?
 
who did the modification to the frame ?
what tubing did they use?
did you have the checked for cracks like magnaflux or x ray ?
If Norton offered a re call or replacement how are there still widowmakers around ?
Can you post close up pics of the modification .........thanks
Sean
 
DogT said:
Did the Widowmaker frame use a different format head steady?


Here's a picture. The bracketry is the same, the diferrence is where it mounts to the frame.

New Owner of '68 Commando
 
sean said:
who did the modification to the frame ?
what tubing did they use?
did you have the checked for cracks like magnaflux or x ray ?
If Norton offered a re call or replacement how are there still widowmakers around ?
Can you post close up pics of the modification .........thanks
Sean


I think it's quite common to see this on old stuff. Because the manufacture recalls something or "offers" a recall it doesn't necesarilly mean that the flaws were repaired. There was quite a few of these on the road at the time of the recall and who knows what was going on in the owners life.

My frame was modified by Wes Scott's welder in Fort Lauderdale. They matched it to a 1972 frame and they now have a jig set up for this.

New Owner of '68 Commando


New Owner of '68 Commando
 
thanks for the pics .....it looks like they removed the ugly piece of sheet metal reinforcement added at the factory
 
I was caught up in the same dilema and was asking myself the very same questions - Should I modify it or should I leave it original? After much thought I chose to modify. A new set of teeth are expensive these days :)
 
Rohan said:
Lets not forget that the bikes being discussed here were Fastbacks, crated out of Plumstead.

All the crated bike pics so far have been out of Wolverhampton.
Different factory, different folks, almost different owners... ??

The 1968 Cycle World article shows a picture of a Plumstead Commando apparently being unpacked from its crate, both forks and front wheel are clearly in situ.

New Owner of '68 Commando

New Owner of '68 Commando
 
L.A.B. said:
Time Warp said:
Its simply a poor design and failed in use for what ever reason.

Agreed, the underlying problem was the design of the frame.

Going by the pictures posted today,I would be taking a look at the 68 head steady mount off the top tube being the culprit.
It seems even the later frames head steady mount that attaches to the cylinder head can have vibration/harmonic cracking also (I picked up a later OEM mount for my 1971 750)
That might suggest it is a location high in destructive forces either way.
 
Time Warp said:
Going by the pictures posted today,I would be taking a look at the 68 head steady mount off the top tube being the culprit.

If testing on rough roads resulted in the frames cracking easily, that doesn't sound like its head steady related ?
 
L.A.B. said:
The 1968 Cycle World article shows a picture of a Plumstead Commando apparently being unpacked from its crate, both forks and front wheel are clearly in situ.

That crate seems huge, for one bike ?!
Hirider handlebars ??
Be good to see it as the crate was just opened.

If the bike was fully assembled, the suspension and tyres should absorb a fair bump ?
 
Yes the Widowmaker frame is the problem but it looks like they did a good job welding the bracetube into place. Yes ,the early style headsteady plate is yet another concern as it may or may not fracture. Drove on mine for 10 years before hearing about fractures and locating a used 828. model box-sectioned one. But now am running the jointed type and the handling differences are astounding so just skip that and get one. After all who stares up under a gastank to bitch or complain about authenticitys when your personal safety should be priority ? Also the clutch cable is too long ,incorrectly routed also to give you grief. Looking good, continue.
 
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