New Norton Owner needs help

HI guys I have just bought my first Norton (70s) and am waiting on a workshop manual to arrive to get it u and going, In the meantime a coule of easy questions (red dumb) but iwill ask anyway, the kill switch is up or down, i,e running = what? simple question and obvoius i am sure but hey the choke works backwards? Im either getting old or this thing has heaps of compression i put my knee out trying to start it, ive heard of wet sumping how do i fix it( not cure) but to make it easier tostart, final question the switch on the headlight has postions can some tell me what they are left to right,

Cheers

ROb

Rockyrob said:

HI guys I have just bought my first Norton (70s) and am waiting on a workshop manual to arrive to get it u and going,

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Welcome Rockyrob,

Which version manual have you ordered? (as some are better than others)

You can use this manual here to start you off:

http://rocbo.lautre.net/technique/norto ... index.html

Click on the first two pages and then select (>) until you get to the Contents page, and then select the section (A-K) and use '<' '>' to select the section pages.

If you can try to be as accurate as possible with your information this will help, as there were many changes made to the Commando models over the years, and "70s" doesn't really give us much of an idea which model you have?

Firstly, Is it a 750 or 850 model?

There were also many mid season changes (of course you may not know much about it so far?) but could you give the first few digits of the engine/frame number?

Rockyrob said:

In the meantime a coule of easy questions (red dumb) but iwill ask anyway, the kill switch is up or down,

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The kill switch should be one of the push buttons (need year info to say where it should actually be?) the two position rocker switch should be the headlamp high/low beam selector, and the three position rocker switch would be for the direction indicators/flashers which may or may not have been fitted (year info again).
Yes the choke cable works back to front for the Amal Mk1 carbs = cable pulled tight is choke OFF.

Rockyrob said:

ive heard of wet sumping how do i fix it( not cure) but to make it easier tostart,

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Lapping the side clearance out of the oil pump can reduce the rate that the oil drains down to the sump, and using a monograde oil can also slow the rate of draining and always leave the engine with the pistons near TDC as that can also help.
There are various 'anti-drain' mods that can be fitted in the feed line between the oil tank and pump, and some swear by them, but there is always the chance that they could cut off the oil supply to the pump which generally results in a blown up engine! There is a timing cover modification that puts a valve after the pump (the 850 Mk3 timing cover has this as standard) this is the better option of the two in my opinion.
The best way to keep the oil from draining down is to ride the bike regularly!.

Rockyrob said:

final question the switch on the headlight has postions can some tell me what they are left to right,

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(year info again?) Left to right should be headlamp only OFF--ON (with Ign switch at pos. 4) if it is a two position switch, as the main lighting on-off function is controlled by the four position ignition switch. Some early headlamp switches are three position type Off-Pilot/Park-Main or Pilot-Off-Main, but I'm not exactly sure which, the first one is correct I think according to the manual?

If you have the four position ignition switch then left to right positions (as you look at the switch) are = 1. Parking Lights--2. Off--3. Ignition--4. Ign. & Lights.

Please note that ANYTHING could have been changed over the years by previous owners!

Hey there,
thanks for the replys to confirm
My Norton is a 1970 S model 750 Commando
Sorry about the confusion I might have caused with my shortcuted
Norton (70s which looks like I have realised 70s
So I appreciate the infomation and links, if you have the answers to my questions posted that are specifc to the model I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers Rob

Yes I had read 70s as 'seventies' and not 1970 (750)S.


So, back to the beginning.

May I ask again which version manual have you ordered?

As it is a 1970 model (pre-71 switchgear) it probably won't have a kill switch, and there isn't one shown in the pre-71 wiring diagram.. (have a look at the pre-'71 wiring diagram in the online manual) http://rocbo.lautre.net/technique/norto ... p/149.html

No change to what I said concerning the "wetsumping"


The headlamp lighting switch should be a three position type that works independently of the ignition switch, and the positions should be left to right = 1. Off---2. Tail, Pilot & instrument lights----3.Tail, instruments and headlamp. (again see the relevant manual info)

http://rocbo.lautre.net/technique/norto ... p/143.html


Quote
_____________________________________
" LIGHTING SYSTEM (1970 Models)


The lighting system operates on direct current drawn from the battery and controlled by the 3 position toggle switch in the headlamp shell. Left position is "off", centre position is "pilot lights", and right position is main beam.

When high beam is selected, the warning light in the headlamp shell illuminates."

_____________________________________



The ignition switch having only two positions 1. Off---2. Ign. on, and brake light circuit on.

Re Kill switch

Thanks LAB and sorry for 70,s confusion. The workshop manual link has helped already. What i have oredered is a CD workshop manual covering all commandos .It should turn up in the next day so i can post details as to its depth when i look at it. . The kill switch?? . if thats what it is is fitted to the left hand grip. There a green button on top( high beam) then a vertical switch (kill switch i think) , then the horn button underneath, I think the bike is totally original but who would know. It still has short stands, chain oiler, no indicators. I checked out the wring diagram in the manual you linked me to and a kill switch is not obvious

Cheers

Rob

Re: Re Kill switch

Rockyrob said:

What i have oredered is a CD workshop manual covering all commandos.

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That should be OK, especially if it is the Kim Norton CD one? http://www.classicstyle.com.au/cdmanuals/default.htm As that has plenty of factory manual & parts book information in it.
I asked because the Haynes paper copy manual doesn't always give enough information to cover all the different models of Commando so can be a little disappointing.

Rockyrob said:

The kill switch?? . if thats what it is is fitted to the left hand grip. There a green button on top( high beam) then a vertical switch (kill switch i think) , then the horn button underneath, I think the bike is totally original but who would know.

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That sounds like the 'Tricon' switch and is probably original. http://www.vintage-motorcycle.com/image ... p?pid=2866 (although the wire colours are likely to be different to the one shown?)
Referring back to the manual wiring diagram that shows there should be a three function switch for:

"Main beam flasher push" = white(W) wire in, blue/white (UW) out.

"Dip [high/low beam] switch" (so -two positions) = blue (B) in, and blue/white (UW) out, to high beam (wire shared with H/lamp flash) and blue/red (UR) out, to low (dip) beam.

and "Horn push". = brown/black (NB) in, no out wire as it is an Earth/Ground switch to handlebar.

I think the green button will be high beam flash, the vertical switch is a two position High/Low beam, and (red or black?) button is horn?

There are no other handlebar switches I think, so no kill switch?

There isn't so much information given in the workshop manuals concerning the S type normally, but the exhaust system and headlamp ring are fairly obvious differences to other models.
The oil tank and battery tray arrangement are also different, because of the S type exhaust system, so don't be surprised if what is shown or described in the manual in that area doesn't seem to match what is fitted to your S model.

Update info

Thanks for the info LAB, you were right it was not a kill switch but a high/low beam switch, (amazing what a charged battery and night time can show up). Cleaned the plugs, drained the old fuel gave it a kick and away she went. The Cd was from Kim the CD man ,lots of good stuff but the scanned pages dont show up photos at all well. I think using a combination of the cd and other links i have been kindly giwen should get me thru nicely

Actually, this should be a Wipac Triconsul switch. The Tricon had a red "push-to-ground" kill button for magneto equipped bikes, where the Triconsul has a green high beam flash button and a black horn button.

Ron L said:

Actually, this should be a Wipac Triconsul switch. The Tricon had a red "push-to-ground" kill button for magneto equipped bikes, where the Triconsul has a green high beam flash button and a black horn button.

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Thanks Ron, I didn't know there was any difference between 'Tricon' and 'Triconsul' although I have seen these types of switches advertised with a black push button, and I noticed that you've discussed this before in a previous posting: http://www.accessnorton.com/post836.html

But, could you clarify what you said at that time regarding the green push button?

Ron L said:

This is a common mistake for those restoring early Fastbacks and 'S' models. The new reproduction Wipac switch with the RED button is called a Tricon. It grounds the contact to the handlebar (great for magneto or horn). The correct switch with the GREEN button (called a Triconsul) is a normally closed, push to open.

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As I see it according to the pre-71 wiring diagram, one of the Triconsul switch push buttons (Green) would operate the headlamp flasher, which I would expect to be a push-to-close switch (according to the wiring diagram)? And the other push switch would appear to be a grounding push-to-close switch for the horn circuit?

How does the Tricon switching arrangement differ from that of the Triconsul?

Les,

Hmmm.. I must have been thinking of the Lucas blade switch kill button when I wrote that.

The green button is NOT a kill button but a headlight flash and is normally open and completes the circuit when pressed (not open the circuit as I stated in the cited post). The black button is a push to ground switch to feed the horn.

On the Tricon, the red button is a magneto kill button (press to ground) and the black button is still a press to ground horn button.

My point was that sometimes people use the Tricon switch and connect the feed wire for the H/L flasher to the red button. When you then press the red button, you instantly create a dead short and blow the fuse.

I know I probably have still not explained this properly, but here is a link to a jpeg of the wiring diagram.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l71/r ... consul.jpg

This may be hard to read, but if you need a better copy PM me and I'll email one.

Les,
By the way, looking at the Wipac in your link. I have never seen a Wipac switch with a red and green button. The Tricon had black and red while the Triconsul had black and green and the Ducon had only black. I assume this is some type of reproduction?

The reproductions being sold on this side of the pond are Ducon and Tricon, but have black or black and red buttons. To my knowledge Triconsul switches are not being reproduced.

Ron L said:

This may be hard to read, but if you need a better copy PM me and I'll email one.

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Thanks Ron, I downloaded the image and then enlarged it a bit, and I can see all the detail OK.

Ron L said:

The reproductions being sold on this side of the pond are Ducon and Tricon, but have black or black and red buttons.

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I think the same is true in the UK as Vehicle Wiring Products and Holdens are that same type:
http://wwww.vehicle-wiring-products.co. ... cle-2.html

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts ... d+Switches

I expect they are all made in the far east?

I have a big bag of old Wipac switch parts. They are somewhat universal in design and I have rebuilt Triconsul switches using parts from Tricon and Ducon. Unfortunately you cannot get the green buttons, so I will grab any broken Triconsul just to get this button.

That's why I noticed the red and green buttons on you Austrian link.