new member with tickler question...

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bluto

bluto

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Just picked up a very clean '73 850 Interstate this week, have not owned a Commando since the '70's when I had a '69 Roadster that was biiig trouble...but finally got over that one and think the new bike will be a much better experience ;-) Anyway, am having some trouble with cold starts and suspect that the ticklers are not depressing the floats enough (takes way more than the typical 3 seconds to flood the carbs enough for the bike to start), read that if they are installed wrong this can happen and wonder if this can be fixed or if I need to get new ticklers... TIA
new member with tickler question...
 
I'd just get a carb rebuild kit (cheap), check float height, replace the needle jet, clean out the pilot jet, sync the carbs and be done with it! :D
 
bluto said:
(takes way more than the typical 3 seconds to flood the carbs enough for the bike to start)
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How long does it take to get the gas do come out the hole when tickling? What's your tickle technique? Just press and hold or tickle? Three seconds sounds too short.
 
It looks like a beautiful machine. If it starts and runs well, don't go nuts fixing things that ain't broke. I have never in 37 years of Norton Commando ownership heard of the ticklers having a time window function. Ride it!
 
swooshdave said:
bluto said:
(takes way more than the typical 3 seconds to flood the carbs enough for the bike to start)
Click to expand...

How long does it take to get the gas do come out the hole when tickling? What's your tickle technique? Just press and hold or tickle? Three seconds sounds too short.
Click to expand...

it can take 20 seconds or more holding the tickler down, seems waaay too long but my memories of my first Commando are pretty fuzzy, also FWIW the tickler bosses don't have vent holes drilled in them like my 750 did (I think). I Googled this and read somewhere that if the ticklers are assembled wrong that they won't push the floats down far enough and wondered if there was a fix for this. The carba have had a recent rebuild by the previou owner and the bike runs great once I get it started...
 
bluto said:
swooshdave said:
bluto said:
(takes way more than the typical 3 seconds to flood the carbs enough for the bike to start)
Click to expand...

How long does it take to get the gas do come out the hole when tickling? What's your tickle technique? Just press and hold or tickle? Three seconds sounds too short.
Click to expand...

it can take 20 seconds or more holding the tickler down, seems waaay too long but my memories of my first Commando are pretty fuzzy, also FWIW the tickler bosses don't have vent holes drilled in them like my 750 did (I think). I Googled this and read somewhere that if the ticklers are assembled wrong that they won't push the floats down far enough and wondered if there was a fix for this. The carba have had a recent rebuild by the previou owner and the bike runs great once I get it started...
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a closeup picture of the tickler area of the carb. I've never seen one without the vent hole.
 
I have experianced this. After the float height was adjusted properly, the tickling functioned great.

Before you get into it, Go to the Amal site and get the rebuild kit with the new Stay Up float.
http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/TechnicalDetail.aspx?id=14
Turn around is better than you would expect and the web site has options to show everything in other currencies.
Heating up the carb body to move the needle seat is to damn iffy in my opinion and can perminately damage the carburetter. The Stayup floats have metal tangs like the rest of the world and are adjusted in that fashion. Very slight tweaking will bring them about.
Search the forum for proper float height. The specs have been updated.
 
I recently replaced the original float bowls on my '70 750 with newer bowls with drain screws. The new ones took forever to tickle. Comparing the float height, the new ones were ~0.080" below the rim of the bowl. With the old ones the float was ~0.010" above the rim.

After reinstalling the old bowls the carbs tickle in about 3 seconds.

Greg
 
I'd love to see a closeup picture of the tickler area of the carb. I've never seen one without the vent hole.[/quote]

no problem....the carbs look like this....


and thanks very much to all for the tips on floats, bowls, etc., that got me on the right track, will check that stuff out in the AM and order the new Amal floats if I don't have them already (a real possibility, the two prior owners bought a LOT of new parts)....
new member with tickler question...
 
swooshdave said:
I'd love to see a closeup picture of the tickler area of the carb. I've never seen one without the vent hole.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if any Amal Mk1 carbs originally supplied with the "waterproof" tickers had vent holes.

bluto,

Check the float heights as suggested.
http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/TechnicalDetail.aspx?id=11

The waterproof tickler pin assembly can be adjusted by simply pushing/pulling the pin in/out of its button, but don't overdo it, as your one looks about right in the photo, measure the tickler button travel of both carbs, it should be approximately 5/16"?.

The carbs have obviously been replaced at some point with new items, as 932 R/L"300" carbs are not the originals, but that's no problem, provided they have been jetted correctly.
 
gjr said:
I recently replaced the original float bowls on my '70 750 with newer bowls with drain screws. The new ones took forever to tickle. Comparing the float height, the new ones were ~0.080" below the rim of the bowl. With the old ones the float was ~0.010" above the rim.

After reinstalling the old bowls the carbs tickle in about 3 seconds.
Click to expand...



http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/TechnicalDetail.aspx?id=13

1966-1972

The original float chambers were fitted from 1966 to 1972 with the drain plug being introduced in 1970. The depth of the needle valve seating from the top edge of the float bowl to the floor of the seating measures 0.588”.
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1972 to Present

The 0.588” seating depth was modified in May 1972 to 0.579”. In April 1974 an adjustment to the slots for the float spindle also lowered the float. The seating depth was further reduced to 0.574” in May 1986 and has remained as that ever since. In this position the fuel level is correct when the top surface of the float is parallel with and just above the top of the float chamber when the valve is closed.
Click to expand...
 
are the carbs the original ones? - if so their most likely going to have additional issues that rebuilding may not fully address (worn slides etc)

you could always fit some new amals or better yet (yes i''ll say it) a mikuni or the PWKs that Jim has and have a superior set up
m
 
mikegray660 said:
but they can be ancient (AKA worn) 932 "300s" correct?
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Yes, certainly.

Although so far, nothing has been mentioned about the carbs (or jets etc.) showing any symptoms of excessive wear, just that the carbs are not flooding properly, because either the float heights or tickler buttons need re-adjusting?
 
As noted by others, go through the carbs and check/set everything. I'd replace the throttle needles and needle jets and at least check that the mains are the same and correct size. You might be surprised to find any of the changeable items different in each carb! Also a new viton tipped float needle. If the oem floats are ok, I wouldn't bother replacing them but some folks like the new "stay up" floats.

My experience with ticklers/floats...

First, it's worth remembering that the level of fuel in the tank determines the "speed" of the tickling so a full gas tank might result in a tickle "overflow" in 2-3 seconds while a nearly empty tank might require considerably more time. That's just physics!

Second, as noted, the float level has a major impact on tickling. The higher the float level, the faster the tickling overflow will occur (but the above re the fuel level still applies). It is possible to have no tickling if the float level is too low because the buttons don't reach far enough.

Third, on my 850 Commando, I have found that the best float level for operation, (with original amal floats/viton-tipped needle), is with the front of the float (free end) .060 below the top edge of the bowl. .080 works well also but tends to put the ticklers at the limt of their reach. I realize there are other much higher recommendations but when I've tried those higher levels, flooding occurs quite easily due to engine vibration. My Commando works really well at the .060.

Fourth, it is possible for the tickling action to dump fuel into the combustion chamber BEFORE there is any visible sign of dripping on the outside of the carb and you can put enough fuel in a cyl whereby the engine will not kick through and you have to pull a spark plug, kick it over a bunch of times (and spray gasoline on the ceiling of the garage). Yes, I know this from experience. As a result of this possibility, I never engage a tickler longer than a count of 5 (seconds). So for me, tickling is until fuel drips externally OR the count of 5 is reached, whichever occurs first.

The above is my experience with MY commando; your mileage may vary!
 
pvisseriii said:
Or they could be fairly new 932 "300's", Correct? They look fresh.
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Yes, indeed, they could be more or less brand new?
 
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