New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

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Ok here's one more concern about the hydrualic tensioner, Would it dump its oil on long Rough hill climbs over 45' angle and what about wheelies held up close to standing on tail?
Throw yourself at the ground and miss!


It might loose it's oil if you parked the bike upside-down for a few months. Can't say I've timed it. :) Jim
 
UUUuuuu, dang it you bring up another even more likely scenario I must keep in mind with Peel oil flows and volumes, as will indeed be fallen on her sides and often enough essentially upside down and likely tumbling too now and then, but tensioner should be ok if it takes a probe to release oil enough to install. I was surprised to find some cycles like my SV650 can't pump oil over 50' degree elevated front. You may all know I'm nutzo case but I remind ya even Jim here has gone flying off into ditch not too long ago, no fault of his own but for exposing his life to road fates, just he ain't expecting or prepping for it like ignorant ole me.
 
comnoz said:
Ok here's one more concern about the hydrualic tensioner, Would it dump its oil on long Rough hill climbs over 45' angle and what about wheelies held up close to standing on tail?
Throw yourself at the ground and miss!


It might loose it's oil if you parked the bike upside-down for a few months. Can't say I've timed it. :) Jim


:) ahh the sincerest form of flattery!
 
Thought this might be an interesting pic. I was going through my picture archives and came across this picture of the "Cork" cam chain tensioner. I also have some of the RMA, but that's a dead horse....

JD
New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.
 
ludwig said:
comnoz said:
That 570 degree reading was the hottest spot. Just above the head gasket right between the cylinders ..

That is why you should drill a hole trough the 3 lower fins here :


New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.


The cavity between these fins is an air trap , especially on the forward inclined Commando engine .
It allows the hot air to escape upwards , and create an air flow where it is desperately needed .

IMO , that hole is worth an oil cooler ..

Ludwig,
You always seem to bring us some nuggets of gold. :D
Cheers,
Thomas

CNN
 
Jim,
I Just picked up my parcel at the Post office and all is good. :D
Thanks and FYI it will go in a Combat with a 2s cam. Power Arc fireworks for spark ignition.
Cheers,
Thomas
CNN
 
jeffdavison said:
Thought this might be an interesting pic. I was going through my picture archives and came across this picture of the "Cork" cam chain tensioner. I also have some of the RMA, but that's a dead horse....

JD
New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

Seems the Cork tensioner was a Mazda unit and actually fits perfectly to some Nissans without machining! Has the ratchet which is visable.
Below is an ebay link showing identical ableit machining to suit Commando! So Jims is the better bet for most!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLOYES-9-5047-T ... 1e&vxp=mtr
 
I have been running a Cork tensoner on my Norton for over 15 years now and haven't had any problems wth it.

Ashley
 
Actually, I started out thinking I might build a tensioner around the Mazda unit like Cork did. But then I found that tensioner is not being
produced presently so once the stock is gone they may get hard to find.

Of course I like the hydraulic idea better anyway. Jim
 
Here is what I have been finding with the first batch of tensioners delivered.

Most tensioners fitted to MK3 850s have needed a shim behind the tensioner to give clearance between the front of the intermediate gear and the ledge on the tensioner. A shim about .040 in thick seems to do the trick.
I plan on altering my program a bit to make some tensioners to fit without the shim. They will then be specific for the MK3.

Some people have found that with a tight new chain there is interference between the left rear corner of the shoe and the intermediate gear. Rotating and holding the tensioner CCW on the studs before tightening the screws normally solves that. I have altered the build program to rotate the 2nd batch of tensioners for more clearance.

I have 5 new chains here that I have tried.

1. the chain I designed the tensioner around was a NOS Reynolds chain purchased from a dealer several years ago. It just fits.

2. a new chain from Andover norton. It is slightly shorter than the nos chain and usually requires pre-grooving the shoe for the side rails to get enough chain slack. Three hacksaw blades taped together and handheld will cut grooves for the siderails.

3. a new chain purchased from MSC industrial. It is pretty close to the NOS chain in length. It just fits.

4. a new IWIS chain from Andy. It compares pretty close in length to the Andover chain. It required pregrooving the shoe to get clearance.

Any of the above chains will fit with no work if they have some mileage on then. They all stretch quite a bit in the first hundred miles as they are breaking in except possibly the IWIS chain -I have not run it, I just tested it for fit.

5. a superduty IWIS chain. It has considerably larger pins and heavier side links. This chain is very much overkill for the application and should not stretch near as much. To use it requires re-contouring the tensioner shoe along with pre-grooving. I am presently running one on my bike and it has not changed in length at all.

New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.


New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.


From now on all the tensioners will have a body that is .050 shorter and rotated a few degrees CCW for more clearance. All the shoes will be re-contoured and pre-grooved so they will clear with any chain. I have ordered a stock of heavy duty IWIS chains and can supply them with a tensioner.

It anyone has purchased one of the first batch of tensioners and wants a heavy duty chain I can supply one along with a re-contoured shoe. I would exchange the re-contoured shoe for the one you have. I don't have a solid price yet for the chains.

I am waiting for the order of chains to arrive along with some better tooling for re-contouring the shoes so it will be a week or two before I will be able to fill orders. Then about 25 units will be available. Jim
 
The iwis are both automotive chains and differ from industrial product.

In all honesty good industrial is fine but should be degreased before fitting.

As a guide any cam chain with grease is not cam chain.

The iwis is not only pretoleranced but pre-run so there shouls be no movement
or elongation.

The big pin chain in my opinion is overkill but should be a "fit for life " item.

Andy
 
I forgot to add, the big pin chain is the one offered to Alton and the one I have been
selling to replace the standard Alton chain. Compare the pics.

Andy
 
swooshdave said:
What is the weight difference between a standard chain and the HD one?

Less than a Snickers bar. Jim :D

Actually I don't know but when my stock arrives I will weigh them.
 
Just out of curiosity I did the math on timing chain wear.

I have a chain from a stock 750 with just under 10,000 miles. I measured the length between 10 rollers and found a difference of .022 inch between that and a new chain. [WOW] Using a PD of 2.125 inch for the cam sprocket that increase makes 2.18 degrees at the cam or 4.36 degrees at the crank.

That will make a significant dent in performance. Maybe the big chain is not so much overkill for the application after all. Jim

PS, I just measured the chain I had installed in my bike just before the national rally. In the 3000 miles I have ridden between then and yesterday the chain has grown by .010 inches over 10 links. That is in comparison to a new standard duty Iwis chain. Jim
 
I wonder what Jims head temp. would have been had he not drilled those fins?
Any guestimates?

I've never seen it done before but It certainly seems like a worthwhile modification.
 
Mark said:
I wonder what Jims head temp. would have been had he not drilled those fins?
Any guestimates?

I've never seen it done before but It certainly seems like a worthwhile modification.


Probably not much hotter or I would have backed off. Jim
 
Just done the maths.

Standard chain is 0.148kg

Heavy beast is 0.191kg

Andy

Com chains will be done by Friday
 
andychain said:
Just done the maths.

Standard chain is 0.148kg

Heavy beast is 0.191kg

Andy

Com chains will be done by Friday

Thanks for that. Maybe when you finish those you better get another batch ready. Jim
 
retarded

Another argument for never install a camshaft by the factory markings , but time it properly .

( ànd advancing it some ..)

From what I have heard, retarding a cam gives a bit more horsepower and a little less torque. So, everything else being equal, you gain a little power as the cam chain wears. Dan.
 
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