New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

Status
Not open for further replies.
DogT said:
Have you tried magnetic prox switches? But if you've got it figured out it won't matter.
Click to expand...

Yes, but most prox switches are temperature sensitive. There are a couple hall effect switches that I have used with some success but I would hate to have one in the points cavity. The points cavity is pretty close to the barrel.

When I was at the Rally in Wyoming I went for a ride with my wife on the back and on one of those long slow climbs that are plentiful in Wyoming I was pulling hard at around 80 mph for a long time. I looked down at the cylinder temp gauge and saw 570 degrees F. A little higher than I would normally want to see but it didn't cause any problems.
I was glad then that I didn't have electronics in the points cavity. Jim
 
Someone should video the cam chain action with the various tensioners. How do ya know if enough oil splash is keeping the hydraulics pumped up? Hydraulics are incompressible so what element gives the spring dampening give and take tension? What would happen if it develops the dreaded wet sump before kick offs?
 
If that is standard Renold 3/8, by the way the pic shows an old bullet proof UK Renold, there is a better chain option
if it will fit. It uses the same sprockets but is a little wider and I will gladly supply a couple free of charge for test.

Andy
 
andychain said:
If that is standard Renold 3/8, by the way the pic shows an old bullet proof UK Renold, there is a better chain option
if it will fit. It uses the same sprockets but is a little wider and I will gladly supply a couple free of charge for test.

Andy
Click to expand...

I'm interested. Jim
 
Chain are better when run on the rollers.

All industrial guides are T shaped to allow this.

Andy
 
I am sure my tensioner will run on the rollers after some miles.

I never had any luck with the rubber covered replacement tensioners. The one that was original in the bike lasted a long time but any replacements always lost the rubber pad in short order. Jim
 
comnoz said:
DogT said:
When I was at the Rally in Wyoming I went for a ride with my wife on the back and on one of those long slow climbs that are plentiful in Wyoming I was pulling hard at around 80 mph for a long time. I looked down at the cylinder temp gauge and saw 570 degrees F. A little higher than I would normally want to see but it didn't cause any problems.
I was glad then that I didn't have electronics in the points cavity. Jim
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The cylinder head temps may get somewhat higher than crankcase temps ?!

If the crankcase was at that temp, the oil would have vapourized and left long ago. !!
Besides, boyers etc survive down there.....
 
The cylinder head temps may get somewhat higher than crankcase temps ?!

> <

If the crankcase was at that temp, the oil would have vapourized and left long ago. !!
Besides, boyers etc survive down there.....[/quote]

No question about that. But the point cavity is not to far from the barrels and can get quite hot under some circumstances.

Boyers have no electronic parts in the points cavity. Just a VR sensor but no zero crossing detector [except Boyer digitals, they do have a zero crossing detector in the box]. Jim
 
Something smells about seeing 570' F anywhere in Norton but combustion chambers and near surrounds and exhaust headers so for cylinder to show that high is extremely serious to contemplate for me, as into range of oil flash off or carbon coking plastic and electronic potting melting temps. Points area get conduction heat from cam as well as thru cases so sure could get close to bottom of barrel temps, which in everything i've studed says should never reach head temps so OH LA LA, the efficient combustion JIm must of gotten must of been over 600'F easy.
 
That 570 degree reading was the hottest spot. Just above the head gasket right between the cylinders. That is a new record and one I don't want to see too often.
I would bet the cases were around 300 from what I have seen before. I don't have a thermocouple on the cases anymore. Jim
 
Ok Jim, then ya meant to write "cylinder head" temps not just "cylinder" temps, so you confused others opinions about me, as usual. Jim this may not be the subject line place but since you have pretty accurate reading of fuel mass consumed could you ping us on ballpark number it was burning to see nearly 600' F in your head? I need some numbers to go by on when to freak out or not on temp readings up top.
 
On recip aircraft thermo sender is often under the sparkplug. EGT probe
in the exhaust stream in exhaust stack. Where is yours? What brand,
Id like to have a pair of sparkplug types installed.
 
Onder said:
On recip aircraft thermo sender is often under the sparkplug. EGT probe
in the exhaust stream in exhaust stack. Where is yours? What brand,
Id like to have a pair of sparkplug types installed.
Click to expand...

The unit on my bike is built from industrial parts. It is a 3/16th diameter stainless type K thermocouple in a passage bored in the cylinder head. It has a shielded cable that runs to a LCD readout on the dash. Jim
 
hobot said:
Ok Jim, then ya meant to write "cylinder head" temps not just "cylinder" temps, so you confused others opinions about me, as usual. Jim this may not be the subject line place but since you have pretty accurate reading of fuel mass consumed could you ping us on ballpark number it was burning to see nearly 600' F in your head? I need some numbers to go by on when to freak out or not on temp readings up top.
Click to expand...

Well aluminum begins to anneal at under 500. It turns to slush at around 1000. It's a puddle at 1150.

My fuel mixture is 12-1 at full load. Timing is 28 degrees at full load. Compression ratio is 10-1. I usually see around 1150 EGT under full load on the dyno. It makes around 65 horsepower at 7000.

The main culprits were 500 lbs of rider, passenger and luggage, a bit of a tailwind and a looong incline with not enough curves. Jim
 
Thx, yes now remember that some are threaded into the head. I suppose EGT tells you
changes faster, not that you can (or at least I) fiddle with the mixture on the run like
you can with an airplane engine.
 
Onder said:
Thx, yes now remember that some are threaded into the head. I suppose EGT tells you
changes faster, not that you can (or at least I) fiddle with the mixture on the run like
you can with an airplane engine.
Click to expand...

Yes, an open EGT sensor gives a fast reaction to changes. But they don't last very long so I only use them on the dyno.

The thermocouple in my head is a lot slower acting but comparative readings gives me a good idea of when I have reached the limits with timing or fuel mixture, and it has been working for many years. Jim
 
ludwig said:
comnoz said:
That 570 degree reading was the hottest spot. Just above the head gasket right between the cylinders ..
Click to expand...

That is why you should drill a hole trough the 3 lower fins here :


New hydraulic timing chain tensioner.


The cavity between these fins is an air trap , especially on the forward inclined Commando engine .
It allows the hot air to escape upwards , and create an air flow where it is desperately needed .

IMO , that hole is worth an oil cooler ..
Click to expand...

I already have a hole there [I think I got the idea from you] plus I removed the flashing between the fins at the rear. I didn't have a before and after temp so I don't know how much it helped. Jim
 
Yeah man on cleaning up the head air traps and passages in the cylinder too, which I consider a Commando lap dance task. Black Body Emmision coating is advertised to help heat dumping. We have been shown the thermal video of a Cdo head and the very center extternally air exposed fin area is Not the hottest spot on the outside even if just below close to the combust inside is, the hottest areas are under, around and to sides of the exht. port area.

I want Peel to eventually lug a loaded side car and trailer in steeps long distance so paying attention to heat reports and what's tolerable. One thing that surprised me on studying engine temps was how much the oil shearing action adds heat. To save mass and look cute Peel may barely hold 2 qts.

Keeping timing about spot on makes a lot of difference in heating parts or putting it to the tire. I'm hoping the hydraulic tensioner dampens enough the Powerarc optical slot trigger works. EGT responds under a sec. CHT in about 20 sec and oil in a min or so. Peel's temps would peak EGT 1325, CHT 425, oil 195 F. Some air craft and such pressing their luck see 1600 EGT and CHT 500's. likely via a plug ring sensor.

Ok here's one more concern about the hydrualic tensioner, Would it dump its oil on long Rough hill climbs over 45' angle and what about wheelies held up close to standing on tail?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top