New guy introduction

Hi. This is my first post. I run a small specialty restoration biz in Phoenix. Mostly vintage Jap stuff. But a guy with a JPN found out I worked in a Norton shop in the early '80s and brought me his bike to "get it running". Not even close. He's into it Big Time on engine parts already, and I'm just getting started. LOL Good Thing I like a challenge, 'cause this is one heck of a mess! I have to thank you guys for helping my rusty memory, and maybe I can even contribute a thing or two.



Didn't look too bad at first, and it kicked over. But the engine and trans were oozing RTV everywhere. Bad omen.


But it had no compression in the left hole. Wonder why...



And the pistons had been up close and personal with the valves on both sides. Knew what that was without even looking.
And note the lovely Vice Grips patina on the end of the crank. I could keep you guys laughing your butts off for a week with the other stuff I've already found.
Let me know if you'd like to see more of the carnage. This "overhaul" was done back in '79 by the PO, and the bike has sat ever since.

Stu O

Yes more pics please!

74JohnPlayer said:

And the pistons had been up close and personal with the valves on both sides. Knew what that was without even looking.

Click to expand...

Was that from over revving or something else?

You can't post too many pictures. If you could I would have been banned already. :mrgreen:

swooshdave said:

74JohnPlayer said:

And the pistons had been up close and personal with the valves on both sides. Knew what that was without even looking.

Click to expand...

Was that from over revving or something else?

You can't post too many pictures. If you could I would have been banned already. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Not likely from over revving. Look at the last picture. The dot on the pinion gear should be between the two red teeth on the intermediate gear. It isn't - the valve timing was off by one tooth. It wasn't enough to bend any valves, but the pistons definitely have marks where they were hitting. Hard as heck to crank the bike over, too. It had a real tight spot near TDC on each side. I assume that was the point of valve interference. More pics tomorrow.

Stu O

Wow, the timing marks are off by a tooth. I believe that will put the cam timing 15 degrees advanced with that little mistake. No wonder valves are hitting.

I didn't know about the paint, I was thinking it was like Triumph with marks on both gears. Do you know if the valves are bent or just kissed? I suppose resetting the gears and starting it would let you know. :mrgreen:

How's a guy to fix that crank? Weld and grind? Ouch.

Cleanup with emery, then speedie sleeve???? Not sure if that can be done but just a thought. If your not familiar with wat a speedie sleeve is, its a stainless sleeve .015 thou thick orderd to size and pressed in place to cover up what that butcher did!
Foxy

You can also have it ground undersize, hard chrome plated, and ground to size. I just had that done on the oil seal area of a Norton (Sifton 460) cam to salvage it, and it cost $80.

Ken

Wow ouch!!! It's hard to understand how someone could do something like that. One of the four studs that holds the sump filter on my BSA Shooting Star allways stuck out a bit more then the others and tonight I deceided to find out why when changing the oil. I tried to unthread it but it just came out, covered in hardened glue! Someone stripped it & just glued it back in. Some people make me feel better about my own feeble skills. Welcome to the fun, please keep us up on your progress.

swooshdave said:

I didn't know about the paint, I was thinking it was like Triumph with marks on both gears. Do you know if the valves are bent or just kissed? I suppose resetting the gears and starting it would let you know. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

There's also a dot at that point. The red color just makes it easier to find. Valves weren't bent, but the faces were hammered so badly, they couldn't be ground. 4 new valves needed.

Stu

deleted double post

Foxy said:

Cleanup with emery, then speedie sleeve???? Not sure if that can be done but just a thought. If your not familiar with wat a speedie sleeve is, its a stainless sleeve .015 thou thick orderd to size and pressed in place to cover up what that butcher did!
Foxy

Click to expand...

You mean like this? It took a lot more than emery to smooth out that mess.

Stu

Now here's something you don't find every day. After cleaning off the old gaskets and RTV silicone, the timing cover wouldn't go on far enough to meet the case. It appeared to be flush with a new gasket in place, but the gasket could be moved around even with the screws tightened. No wonder the thing had half a tube of silicone on it.


Turns out, some genius removed the intermediate gear shaft. When he reinstalled it using red Loctite, he didn't press it in far enough, so the shaft was bottoming in the hole in the timing cover before the cover was flush with the case. The back of the shaft was a good 1/4" away from the locating clip in the case. I heated the snot out of the area and drove the shaft into correct position.


End of problem


But not the end of the fun. There's a lot more I didn't take pictures of but wish I had. Both con rods were installed backwards, with the oil holes facing the inside. He staked the con rod nuts to the bolts, ruining all four bolts - $80 for 4 new ones. The studs and nuts attaching the crankshaft throws to the weight were all in wrong positions and loose with the nuts buggered. 6 new studs and nuts and 2 lock tabs arrived today. Raber's stock is amazing. They've had everything I needed so far.

Stu

ludwig said:

74JohnPlayer said:

.. the valve timing was off by one tooth..

Click to expand...

This may have been done on purpose . I don't go by the factory markings either .
But in this case ?.. unlikely ..

Click to expand...

I'll bite...

Why would you want to change the timing of the cam in relation to the crank? Or am a missing something (as usual).

rvich said:

Why would you want to change the timing of the cam in relation to the crank? Or am a missing something (as usual).

Click to expand...

Some performance cams, installed with other performance mods that are tuned together, require significant timing advance from the stock manufacturer settings.
.

If that was me I would have just ground down the shaft to make the cover fit. :mrgreen:

swooshdave said:

If that was me I would have just ground down the shaft to make the cover fit. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

:shock: With all the cobbled stuff I've already found, I'm surprised the guy who made this mess didn't think of that. Maybe a tube of RTV was cheaper than buying a grinder?

Stu

Gday Stu, yep looks better and thats a sleeve we're looking at? That thread could do with a good rub with a wire brush aswell.
You having to dismantle the motor because of the previous owners efforts gives good reason to why golf was invented, he should've taken that up instead!!
Foxy

Foxy said:

Gday Stu, yep looks better and thats a sleeve we're looking at?

Click to expand...

Right, a Speedi Sleeve. $34. And it's only 1/4" wide, so I had to drive it on a bit at a time and test fit the cover to see if the seal was riding on it.

That thread could do with a good rub with a wire brush aswell.

Click to expand...

That was before teardown. It's all good now.

You having to dismantle the motor because of the previous owners efforts gives good reason to why golf was invented, he should've taken that up instead!!
Foxy

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, Foxy. A friend in California just had his Commando "restored" by someone else here in Phoenix, but they didn't touch the motor, except to clean it up. I asked him why would he pay a fortune to have someone basically paint and polish and fix external and cosmetic stuff, but trust the motor. He said the PO told him the motor had "recently been rebuilt". Besides, he went way over budget as it was. :roll: I hope he doesn't live to regret that decision.

Stu