AAMVA.org replied:
"Thank you for your inquiry concerning your motorcycle. There is no indication that your vehicle has been stolen. Your motorcycle has is a nonstandard VIN that is shared by a tractor trailer in Michigan. VINs are not unique identifier for vehicles and sometimes VINs may be shared with other vehicles. The entries in NMVTIS are appropriate.
If you sell the vehicle, any state will be able verify your title by calling state in which it is titled, in your case Virginia. If you want to resolve this issue permanently you may request the state in which your vehicle is titled to issue a state issued VIN. This will separate the two vehicles and will eliminate the need the state to verify outside of NMVTIS."
I replied to that:
"See the details below.
The short version is: VA has an automatic system to invalidate titles/registration when a VIN is titled in another state – that’s is what happened to me. VA insists that they cannot fix that, and that MI will have to remove their VIN. MI insists that they cannot do that unless the VIN is proven wrong. That has not happened.
VA will not issue a state VIN and if they would it would destroy the value of my motorcycle and turn it into a 2022 motorcycle with a non-standard title that could no longer support a historic registration – that in turn would cost me hundreds of dollars per year.
Somehow, your organization and/or the DoJ need to make the States understand the system and quit doing this. I now know of several more cases in various states who have similar problems – each State acts differently. I am being pushed to lead a class action suit on this – I really don’t want to spend the rest of my life fighting your organization and the DoJ, but I really don’t like that my motorcycle has been stolen by bureaucracy and that I have a collection of motorcycles that can be stolen one-by-one in the same manner.
Here’s the body of what I wrote to NMVTIS. Their response led me to you:
“I’m have a DMV issue that is complicated and may affect hundreds to thousands of US Citizens. I’ll give you the shortest rundown I can but realize that this represents over 9 hours on the phone in one day and a lot of effort after that. I’m not sure who to ask for help.
- I happened to be looking something up in my VA DMA portal and noticed that my primary motorcycle is listed as sold. Since it is not sold, is in my garage, is properly titled and registered I was of course concerned and very happy that I didn’t find out by the police pulling me over and checking the registration. I obviously did not inform the DMV that it was sold – it was not.
- I called the DMV in Richmond. Once I finally got to a human and explained over and over, she finally understood and said she would turn over to the titling group and they would answer in 48 hours. She left me a voice mail many days later saying that it was titled in MI recently and therefore I have to talk to MI’s DMV (Secretary of State).
- Called MI’s DMV and was told they could do nothing - it was properly titled. When I mentioned that fraud was clearly committed, they said to call the police.
- I called the MI State Police who informed me that since I was not a MI resident that they could do nothing and to call my local police.
- I called the Fairfax County police and the officer asked for a few minutes to look it up. He came back on and stated that my VIN was indeed titled in MI, but it was a tractor, not a motorcycle.
- I called the VA DMV in Richmond DMV again. After a lot of explaining she transferred me to the original lady. I told her about it being a tractor at which point she said she knew that because MI told her via email, but that didn’t matter – she nastily said: “I told you we can do nothing you must work with MI”. She explained that the computer looks for titling in other states and only goes by the VIN so there is no room for mistakes. More on this in a minute.
- I called the MI DMV again and finally got to a “technician” supposedly with the power to fix it. He said that there was no way to fix it as it’s a national system that only goes by the VIN. But he would write a letter to the company in MI that titled the tractor and have them check the VIN. If the VIN is wrong, he can change that. That was about three weeks ago and I’ve heard nothing.
What caused this:
- The primary cause is that VA, et. Al. consider a VIN to be 17 unique characters and don’t realize that was not always the case.
- My 1974 Norton commando is serial number 310311 – that is its VIN – both in reality and on my Title and Registration
- The 2005 Tractor was titled in MI using that number. Then sold to someone else in 2014 when the national system was not being used.
- I bought and titled my bike in VA in 2015 when the national system was not being used or the VIN didn’t show up.
- The tractor was sold again this year to a MI company and since they had a valid MI title to transfer, they didn’t bother checking the national system, but their computer did send the info to the national system.
- Since a 2005 vehicle must have a 17-character VIN I assume that either in 2005 tractors didn’t need a VIN or someone titled it using the first number they saw on some part of the tractor.
Most importantly is it extremely short sighted that:
- The national system, I assume you, only goes by VIN
- The VA DMV quietly invalidates titles and registrations based on that system
- That everyone in the VA and MI DMVs says that nothing can be done.
VA law requires owners to inform the DMV when a vehicle is sold or otherwise disposed but they don’t even inform you when they summarily invalidate. It’s ridiculous that I now have a $13,000 motorcycle that is illegal to ride or sell. It is my opinion that it was functionally stolen from me by the fraudulent actions of two states based upon the info in your database.”
