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New classic brit bike owner/what have I gotten into?

Discussion in 'Other Norton Motorcycles' started by Piefairy, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    The gear indicator, or pointer can be offset, and point to neutral while the gearbox is actually engaged in gear. Raise the rear wheel enough to spin it, then move the gear selector up until you are sure the box is in 1st, then ease the selector down one notch. The rear wheel should spin easily when you find neutral. Then set the pointer to neutral. When you have the gearbox in neutral, try kickover again and report back.

    Changing carbs will not make cranking any easier.

    I had 10.5:1 CR pistons in my Atlas until recently, and never had the difficulty kick starting that you are experiencing.

    Slick
     
  2. Bodger

    Bodger VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Please dont take offense, but you may be making this much more complicated than need be by, among other things, considering multiple changes without first dealing with basics. For one thing, if you are kicking the bike over in gear you will know instantly because the rear wheel will want to turn. My suggestions: (1) clean the outside of the oil drain on the bottom of the crankcase [it's the large thing] and drain the oil into a clean container or containers; (2) pour the oil back into the oil tank [you need oil here so it will circulate to the oil pump and through the motor]; (3) research Norton wet sumping so you know why you just drained the oil and poured it back in; (4) remove both plugs and check for spark as per Slick's suggestions; (5) if your check showed that you have spark, put a teaspoonful of gas in each cylinder; (6) install new plugs gapped to .022 for magneto ignition; (7) kick bike over with throttle open. You now have spark and fuel. If it doesn't start you have a serious problem or problems and need to have a knowledgable person take a look.
     
  3. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    My bike does not have the gear indicator on it. I'm judging neutral by feel more or less. When I got to first, second, ect, there is a solid "click" feel to it. 1st to neutral is just kinda a "tap" feeling if that makes sense.

    Texas, your saying to "move the gear selector up until you are sure its in 1st, then shift down one notch". I may be misunderstanding but this sounds like the shift pattern is N-1-2-3-4, the outside of the gearbox on mine indicates 1-N-2-3-4.

    Bodger, I take no offense. I know I do tend to overthink things. The oil is drained, it is replaced with fresh 20-50. I know what wet sumping is, and that I need to cycle some of the oil out of the sump back to the tank prior to trying to start the bike.

    I appreciate all the help guys and gals, I'm pretty damn sure I'm overthinking it or just missing something stupid.
     
  4. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    DAMNIT, I just read some prior posts... Nortons have an inverted shift pattern... that would do it. I'm trying to kick it over in 3rd... fk me, I knew it was something simple...
     
  5. Bodger

    Bodger VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Nortons are not inverted. Triumph's are as are all left shift modern bikes. This is a NORTON forum.
     
  6. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    Sorry if I offended. The shift pattern is different from what I am use to on a left side shift correct? 1 down 3 up is what I learned on. Nortons are 1 up 3 down correct?
     
  7. Bodger

    Bodger VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Yes, and I was just joking.
     
  8. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    Another question. When I drained the sump, the big ass nut was a bit ragged, and there was oil around it. It needs atleast a new gasket, if not a whole plug. I cant seem to find the size or anyone listing the plug.

    Anyone tried this for the wet sump issue?
    https://nycnorton.com/product/reed-valve-breather-kit/
     
  9. Bodger

    Bodger VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
  10. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    If you go with the sump plug/breather from nycnorton (actually Jim Comstock's device), your Atlas will breathe easier, have less leaks, and will return wet sumped oil to the oil tank with a few easy kickovers.

    With a sump plug breather, remove the 90 degree elbow, plug the timed breather port at the drive side of the engine, and re-route the breather hose. IIRC, the port takes a 1/2-20 thread and internal wrenching socket head plug screws are readily available.

    Jim Comstock is comnoz on this Forum.

    I have a spare sump plug with drain plug similar to RGM's that I will sell for $25 plus shipping. It was used on my Atlas until I got Jim's breather.

    Slick
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  11. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    The breather doesn’t prevent wetsumping, it just makes it easier to clear the crankcase if it does.

    As per the shift pattern, do not assume anything about how this bike works. You will need to relearn everything you thought you knew. That is part of the challenge and why we love these cranky old things.

    The only similarity between this bike and the ones you had before is that they have two wheels.

    You don’t seem to mind asking questions. Keep it up! Just take your time and soon you’ll be an expert, or at least be able to get around the block.
     
    Bodger likes this.
  12. Bodger

    Bodger VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 9, 2017
    Well now I'm curious. Am I correct that for the Comstock/NYC Norton breather to "clear" the sump the bike has to be running?
     
  13. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Partly correct ..... if the sump is so full of oil as to hydro lock, gently kicking over will force oil out the center tube which is about 3/8" ID, and back to the oil tank. This path has far less resistance than that thru the timed breather.

    Once the hydro lock is relieved, I do not think further kicking over will "clear" the remaining oil, but the danger of inverting the oil seal is past.

    To scavenge oil from the sump by merely kicking over, the downward moving pistons would have to develop the head pressure necessary to raise oil from the sump level to the breather port level on the oil tank. This pressure is easy to achieve under hydro lock, and likely near hydro lock. However, as the one way valve does its work, negative pressure develops in the sump when the pistons move upwards, and this negative pressure may not, or likely not, go positive enough on the downward piston cycle to raise the oil.

    Slick
     
  14. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    New plugs, NGK BP8ES, I gapped them to .025, and it finally turned over and ran for about 15 to 20 seconds. I had to keep on the throttle and couldn't get a smooth idle. The bike was also walking back towards the bay door before it stalled out. It sounded good and smooth, just wouldn't idle. I havent gotten it to turn over again since, I'm going to narrow the gap to .020 and that should allow for an easier spark I think.

    Another thing g driving me nuts is trying to find neutral. I shift up into first, lightly press down until I hear a click, half the time its neitral, the other half its 2nd gear. Any tips?
     
  15. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    Turned over again after regapping. Bike seems starved for fuel, no backfire, but even in neutral with the clutch all the way in, it wants to stall if I do stay on it. I'm going to free up some of the throttle play and see if it helps.
     
  16. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    How much oil should I have I in it? The old oil I drained did not look as good as I thought, and it had a leak at the sump plug. I'm hesitant to add to much, I've blown seals doing that before. I have about 2.5 litres in it now, but just starting to see it circulate. Before I add much more I would like to know. I. Not riding it yet, working on a stable idle, so it's not under much stress
     
  17. t ingermanson

    t ingermanson VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2018
    are we assuming you've cleaned the carbs, or have you?

    plugged jets or mismatched slide heights can stall out a motor at idle, as i'm sure you know.

    you might try and find some 100 octane non ethanol gas. it's expensive, but gives you a bit more wiggle room when trying to get it going.

    a bike sold sight unseen as a "runner", rarely is in my experience.
     
  18. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    I figured as much when I bought it. I never expect a used anything to be ready to run. I figure the carbs and getting are probably off. Also in messing with the throttle cable, its shot. Torn housing, bent in spots. I'm probably just going to pull the stock unit and order the mikuni kit and be done.
     
  19. texasSlick

    texasSlick VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Oil capacity is about 2 1/2 quarts, or about 2 liters.

    The Atlas walks backwards when on the center stand and engine revved.

    I will post links on how to tune Amal carbs tomorrow.

    Slick
     
  20. Piefairy

    Piefairy

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2019
    Has anyone tried this kicker on an Atlas? I like how it folds in, and its extended to help.
    https://nycnorton.com/product/folding-kickstart-lever/

    Also, I keep reading negative reactions about kicking with the bike on center or side stand. I'm looking to put a side stand on the Atlas, just for convenience, but if the stand is strong, what is the real negative to kicking on it?

    Thanks
     

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