Neoliberal individualism and collectivism

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acotrel

acotrel

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During WW2 when the allied soldiers were POWs in Changi jail and on the Burma Road, there were three distinct types of people. The British kept their class system going. The Americans were individuals. And the Australians had their support systems up and going. They survived better than most due to their collectivism.
If you read Friedrich Hayek's 'Constitution Of Liberty', it gives a very good justification for neoliberal individualism. It also justifies tax avoidance. A lot depends on whether you believe in 'society' or you believe you don't need anybody else. One thing which stands out in Australia is when individuals 'privatise the profits and socialise the costs' - it happens quite often.
 
acotrel said:
During WW2 when the allied soldiers were POWs in Changi jail and on the Burma Road, there were three distinct types of people. The British kept their class system going. The Americans were individuals. And the Australians had their support systems up and going. They survived better than most due to their collectivism.
If you read Friedrich Hayek's 'Constitution Of Liberty', it gives a very good justification for neoliberal individualism. It also justifies tax avoidance. A lot depends on whether you believe in 'society' or you believe you don't need anybody else. One thing which stands out in Australia is when individuals 'privatise the profits and socialise the costs' - it happens quite often.
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The Aussie idea is something that is the same as Liverpool's population, they avoid paying taxes by using a barter system- wonder where they get them from?
 
According to Gavan Daws book: 'Prisoners Of The Japanese' the US POWs were the only ones that used to kill each other...
 
xbacksideslider said:
Voluntary collectivism is wonderful. Great stuff.
Coerced collectivism is hell. Stalin's Ukraine, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Castro's Cuba, and so on.
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Democracy is the only thing on this planet which is really worth fighting for. However I believe authoritarian states will force their idealogic issue to it's limits. In Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, 'self-actualisation' is the highest level. If you cannot be yourself, life is not worth living ? So nuclear war is highly likely to happen. Fascism, communism and religion are all based on belief. - I don't believe I want freedom, I know it. But freedom brings responsibilities and many don't recognise that aspect.. - Abuse it and lose it.
 
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acotrel said:
Democracy is the only thing on this planet which is really worth fighting for. However I believe authoritarian states will force their idealogic issue to it's limits. In Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, 'self-actualisation' is the highest level. If you cannot be yourself, life is not worth living ? So nuclear war is highly likely to happen.
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Actually I believe you’re interpreting Maslow‘s hierarchy kinda upside down.

Life is arguably not worth living (and / or not possible) without the lower levels, roughly equivalent to what Herzberg called the ‘hygiene factors’.

The top of Maslow's hierarchy is the pinnicle of human attainment, as such, is only ever achieved and experienced by the very few.

Norton riders most probably...
 
Peoples view of their own countries personality traits can be very odd, a few years I had a pre drunken conversation with a mainland Chinese factory manager who was adamant that the Chinese could not be part of a totalitarian state as they would rebel before it could be established, unlike the Japanese who did in WW2 and could again. Today I think Xi and the CCP would disagree and be correct.
 
With the Japanese, the social controls are internalised and it is probably similar with the Chinese. Most westerners refuse to be dictated to. It is probably about self-perception. I know I don't relate to the kids in my life, in the same way as the Chinese. A few years ago, we had a Japanese exchange student staying with us. My ex was in tears when she understood the kind of life that girl was going back to in Japan. I am still in touch with her. She is in her 50s, unmarried and still working in her father's accounting practice. - Dedication to service ?
 
acotrel said:
With the Japanese, the social controls are internalised and it is probably similar with the Chinese. Most westerners refuse to be dictated to. It is probably about self-perception. I know I don't relate to the kids in my life, in the same way as the Chinese. A few years ago, we had a Japanese exchange student staying with us. My ex was in tears when she understood the kind of life that girl was going back to in Japan. I am still in touch with her. She is in her 50s, unmarried and still working in her father's accounting practice. - Dedication to service ?
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That’s your sample size for your conclusions about the Japanese Al ?!?

Without wishing in any way to disparage that lady, I think she’s perhaps just a rather sad and unfulfilled individual?

I’m pretty sure that if you conducted a wider study, you’ll find that the majority of Japanese people in their 50s are actually married!

And divorce rates, whilst higher than in previous generations, are still much lower than many western countries, especially the U.K.
 
Fast Eddie said:
That’s your sample size for your conclusions about the Japanese Al ?!?

Without wishing in any way to disparage that lady, I think she’s perhaps just a rather sad and unfulfilled individual?

I’m pretty sure that if you conducted a wider study, you’ll find that the majority of Japanese people in their 50s are actually married!

And divorce rates, whilst higher than in previous generations, are still much lower than many western countries, especially the U.K.
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The salaryman (or salarywoman in this case, maybe?) IS a uniquely Japanese phenomenon.
 
NPeteN said:
The salaryman (or salarywoman in this case, maybe?) IS a uniquely Japanese phenomenon.
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Japan has a big problem with it's declining birth rate and an ageing population. My feeling is we all believe certain things to be true, but we might have been sold a pup. In Japan, that conditioned thinking might be on a massive scale. In Australia, our economic growth is mainly based upon property development and immigration. So if you think your kids are going to have good lives, you might be wrong.
When I look back on my life, there are very few things I feel I should have done differently, but I am probably fully programmed to think that way.
 
Management By Objectives is like driving a car forward while looking into the rear vision mirror. I always have a problem with conservatives - 'back to the future' is not progressive. We should set our goals and manage the risks. Perhaps we should imagine the world in which we want to live , then work towards it ? Life without fun is probably not worth living.
 
Democracy? Not sufficient.
Two wolves and a lamb vote on what's for dinner?
That's coerced collectivism.
Constitutional republican democracy, acknowledges natural rights and creates "checks and balances" that limit state coercion.
 
Currently in Australia, there are restrictions imposed because of Covid 19. Many people are asserting they have rights they do not have. Under the emergency provisions of our laws state premiers can dictate. Our conservative Prime Minister John Howard opposed development of a Bill Of Rights, on the basis that 'any right which was not included, would not be a right'. It is all Catch-22 bullshit. Authoritarian ideology is crap whether it be Fascist or Communist, Nazism or Marxism . In Australia voting is compulsory for all eligible citizens. However we do not usually conscript people for military service. What it means is if there is an election, you must state your preference or vote informal. If there is a war, you can choose not to go. Our soldiers are amongst the most effective on the planet. A 'just war' is usually a fight for democracy.
 
xbacksideslider said:
Democracy? Not sufficient.
Two wolves and a lamb vote on what's for dinner?
That's coerced collectivism.
Constitutional republican democracy, acknowledges natural rights and creates "checks and balances" that limit state coercion.
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A constitutional republican democracy operates well without a monarch or a dictator ? - What is Trump ?
 
What I like about the American system is the ability to set goals, think big and proactively manage the risks. You have some big risks now, which I do not like. Charles the 1st referred to democracy as 'populism'. He got his lolly lopped for acting arbitrarily.
One man's ambition can be another man's poison.
 
acotrel said:
A constitutional republican democracy operates well without a monarch or a dictator ? - What is Trump ?
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Trump was ELECTED. Just like every President before him.

Using the rules set forth in the US Constitution.

The US is a Constitutional Republic.

It means we Elect people to represent us, and they are supposed to follow the rules, and more important the limitations set forth in the Constitution.

That is the main parts of the Constitution, are to Limit Govt. Over the years many of the limitations have been taken from us.

One example is Income Tax, this was expressly forbidden in the Constitution, It was Passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913, the 16th amendment established Congress's right to impose a Federal income tax. It was sold to the Population by the same way most things are, Lying.

So far it has been the most successful form of Govt on the planet.

The "Founders" looked at every form of Govt at the time and wrote in many things to keep the Govt from taking rights away from people.
This is why many rights are called "inalienable rights" so called because they are not given to you by the govt, so they cannot be taken away by the govt.
 
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trident sam said:
I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in the past with some of your posts , but you really are a dick head aren't you .
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That's me to a T.
I'm still waiting for the men in white coats to come and take me away, especially on a full moon! o_O
 
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