Negative Ground rewire Questions 74 850 Commando (2012)

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Hello I have a 74 850 commando just put in 3 phase alternator, tri-spark ignition and coil... I was told by supplier to switch to negative ground... I had to rewire it anyways so I started the project so far the tri spark ignition and coil as well as sparx reg/rect all wired. Do I have to change anything in the handlebar switches or headlight / or tail light and brake lights I don not want LED's. I dont have horn or turn signals previous owner didn't even hook up R handlebar switch so I want to. Any one know of a simple diagram also I saw in a post by L.A.B that he installed a Fuze box I ordered one but is it necessary. I am just finding it difficult as the wiring job before was a DIY all black wires so I just got rid of it and there were only two ground locations coil, and behind battery box.. Any help would atleast get me back on my feet been a long couple days and I feel like very little has been accomplished Thanks so much......... What you guys and ladies do here makes it possible for a guy like me who loves his bike to put it back on the road and thats amazing, thanks for any help
 
Only items a normal wired Cdo would have to change polarity for a neg ground is Zener diode, rectifier and the big blue capasitor. You are missing the assemulator gizmo, thank goodness so a no brainer to leave it usless clutter out of it.
Your reg/rect box eliminates the Zener and rectifer plus the capacitor should be able to take reversed polarity a good while but don't really need it if battery is ok but will need a bit faster roll off start on a dead battery w/o a the blue can or equivalent installed. In others words carry on as you are, as if ordinary american car to wire. Your hi beam head light shell indicator lamp may need to rewire its ground or might glow even with hi beam off. Only need one fuse that can barely take the full electric load though battery so if something sorts it don't start a fire before fuse melts. Fuses protect bike not the item or wire that's shorted. 20-25 amp handles my simple Combat with just horm brake and head lights.

Negative Ground rewire Questions 74 850 Commando (2012)
 
If you want to be pedantic you should also swap the coil wiring so the spark polarity will remain the same and give longer electrode life.
Peter R
 
jeremy0201 said:
also I saw in a post by L.A.B that he installed a Fuze box


Did I?

As for polarity, to put it simply, switches and standard bulbs aren't normally affected either way.
Coils, and electronics (EI, regulator, rectifier) are.
If you feel you need more grounds then add them - because you can't have too many.

Because of the Isolastics, make sure the engine has a good ground path back to the battery.

Note about fuses.
"35A fuse" in British motorcycle manuals and handbooks refers to the blow rating of the old style UK glass fuses which are 17A continuous - so if you replace that type of fuse with any modern continuous marked fuse it needs to be approximately half the 35A rating. Adding extra lower rated fuses to protect specific circuits can be a good idea - as an electrical fault is less likely to disable the complete electical system.
 
Only need one fuse to protect everything as shorts do not add current to any items but the short path to battery. Its possible to short thru an indicator lamp and burn its wire up but not many fuse each tiny lamp. If ya want to protect the wires to horn or brake light or head light and ignition like I did on my 1st re-wire job, have at it but I've since realized its a waste of effort and clutter and more connections to shake apart. Old Brit stuff let the electrons flow out of battery into frame path and out via red wires then thru components and back to battery via color coded wire thru a switch like key or toggle. In Neg Groud the electrons flow the other way to get to a component, which is lights don't matter but some components like new ignitions ya need to keep the polarity in mind. Do label plainly the battery connections so an ole Norton expert don't short out ign. installing a battery or jumping off a dishcarged one. Old Brit fuses were slow blow, new age glass or plastic are fast blow. 20 amp should do it nowadays.
 
All of my bikes except the one Im currently building are wired up the one fuse way. The one fuse way makes the initial job easy and tracking problems difficult.
Also, there are items you might want to run (GPS, self cancel turn module etc) that need more protection than the single 20 amp main fuse offers.

I was able to purchase one of my Vincents because it was wired one fuse. Bit of a long story, the bike was brought over to Vancouver from the UK in 1980 in very rough shape. The purchaser, Leo was pretty enthusiastic about owning a Vincent and tried to get some fun miles on the bike, but everything was wrong with it.
In 1984 he took the bike to one of the best Vincent rebuilders on the planet, John Mcdougall. leo told John to tear it down to the crankpin and replace everything and anything needed. John pretty much does that anyway, but on this bike about all they kept were cases, frame members and the heads, which got everything renewed. John wired the bike up the one fuse way.

They put about 15k of parts and 10 k of labour into the bike. Once it was fired up it ran great except the fuse would burn out intermittently and also the new battery had a tendency to disharge rapidly, which left Leo stranded on several occasions.

John M looked it over and suggested the problem was in the Lucas generator, one of the very few original parts not replaced. He told Leo to buy one of his "Mcdougallators"which are a Kubota tractor alternator fitted into a housing and drive system made by John. They work very well and cost $1200. Leo was getting sick of spending on the bike so he did not purchase the Mcdougallator but took the bike to AutoMarine Electric Repair to see if they could figure out the problem. They tested the generator and found it was working properly and could not find any shorts in the electrical system anywhere.

Leo continued trying to ride the bike, but every other outing the fuse would pop, the battery would drain or sometimes both would occur. He and the bike often came home in the back of a pickup truck. After awhile he just stopped riding it.

About four years ago he sold it to me, having put just 550 miles on it in twenty years. The new engine was not even broken in yet!
I started fettling it and it wasnt long till I experienced the same problems as Leo had. I struggled to find the problem and finally, on the advice of several club members, replaced thecLucas generator with a new charging unit. This did not fix the problem.

Finally one night I was out on the bike and noticed sparks between the headlight switch and the headlight. This only happened at a certain rpm (vibration) and not every time. The headlight switch was faulty. This was the problem all along!

Now if the bike had been wired up with a proper fuse box and individually protected circuits for lights, horn, charging, igntion and whatever else, Leo would have blown the fuse for the lights and known right away that the problem was in that circuit. It would have been a 5 amp fuse, so it would have blown easily and probably not drained the battery first. He would most likely not have been stranded all of those times. On top of that, either auto marine elec or John M would have found the trouble in the light switch early on. And Leo would have had 20 years of fun on his Vincent after spending all of that money and effort on it rather than 20 years of agony.
But I would not have been able to pry it away from him!
So in this instance, the one fuse wiring job was quite helpful to me!

Glen
 
Well there ya go, w/o a single fuse you'd not have such a tale to tell with such glee. Us hayseeds get stumped to by single fuse critters, till we try it the dark and/or disconnect things if rattle jerk banging don't reveal it first. Hardest short for me to find on one fuse was the tail light ground strap intermittently bumping a hot wire. Was exactly like a low volt boyer misfire before stalling or picking right back up fine, ugh. If ya do multi fuse, use the tiny micro car fuses not the dang glass kind. For my fancy bike its got handfulls of circuit breakers but will have on whole bike fuse off battery. While at it even better than a bunch of fuses is a bunch of relays to take some the yellow out of the low beam.
 
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John M looked it over and suggested the problem was in the Lucas generator, one of the very few original parts not replaced. He told Leo to buy one of his "Mcdougallators"which are a Kubota tractor alternator fitted into a housing and drive system made by John. They work very well and cost $1200. Leo was getting sick of spending on the bike so he did not purchase the Mcdougallator but took the bike to AutoMarine Electric Repair to see if they could figure out the problem. They tested the generator and found it was working properly and could not find any shorts in the electrical system anywhere.

<text deleted>

About four years ago he sold it to me, having put just 550 miles on it in twenty years. The new engine was not even broken in yet!
I started fettling it and it wasnt long till I experienced the same problems as Leo had. I struggled to find the problem and finally, on the advice of several club members, replaced thecLucas generator with a new charging unit. This did not fix the problem.

Finally one night I was out on the bike and noticed sparks between the headlight switch and the headlight. This only happened at a certain rpm (vibration) and not every time. The headlight switch was faulty. This was the problem all along!

<text deleted>

Glen

Glen. I wanted to fit one of John's McDougallators to my bike but waited too long. His drive system was well-engineered. Alton is in place now.

Funny you mention a light switch as being the culprit in your blown fuse issues. Just rode my Shadow this past weekend after long rebuild. Everything was fine until I cleaned it up after the ride. No power! (which was traced to a blown fuse in the battery box.) The 12V main was shorted to ground--this was puzzling as I had made up a new wiring harness for the build. I followed the main to the light switch; no shorts on any of the switched circuits. Disconnected the main from the circuit feeding the new Altette horn--the short is in the horn circuit. The hot wire to the brake light switch feeds off the horn terminal. It turns out the short is in the brake light switch. It's an NOS Lucas in its original packaging I've had packed away since the early 90's--go figure. o_O

Getting back closer to the original discussion, my Shadow uses two fuses. The aforementioned fuse in the battery box and another in the AC line between the Alton and the Podtronics regulator. The Alton is certainly worth protecting in the case the Podtronics or anything downstream of it shorts out.

~998cc
 
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