need wiring harness 72 motor in 69 frame

Just picked up a project 750 norton has 72 motor 2om3s starts with 152serial. Anyhow It needs new wiring. Can I use 72 wiring in the 69 frame? I'd rather keep it to the year of the motor?

Also I just want to confirm I can fit an updated 850 centre stand in this Frame? it has the curved plate with holes, im guessing just have to make the hole a bit bigger. I've read the other posts.

thanks
Once I figure how to show a pic I will

RIGHT .

As theres about TWO wires to the Motor , if we look at the chain case as something else , it shouldnt be to hard .

However , if you can find a Hillman Hunter ( Believe it or not there was one in the carpark here today )
the QUALITY of both the wires , clips perhaps , and sheaths , is vastly better .

As it Std British colour codeing , theres more than enough to go round . If you can use a soldering iron .
the alternative is Mk IV Zepher / Zodiac wireing . The wired the U S Nimitz from one of these , and had some left over .
Main cables there are as thick as a tree trunk , so you can run 500 watt Head Lamps , no worries .

Some idiots liable to have these on E Bay . with no takers .

the point being , good quality wire & fittings . Usually one end ready fitted . fittings can be ' re used / re fitted . With care .
to swap them round . Thegood ' round pin ' steel plug in THINGS unlike nasty brass ones with hollowed backs , wont
take a 4 mm diameter gouge out of your fingers , pulling them out , either .

DRAW - a CHARGE system .

a IGNITION system .

aancinalrys / lighting system .

Create in that order . Start the tape binding in the middle - outward . If you ran a mag you can just run the alternator straight to the bulbs .
If you got flash , youd put a few RELAYS in for definitive current , to a few places .Apparently a Mk III loom is T 160 without a few connected .
But COLOUR CODES are the first trick . A Mk IV has about 500 differant colour combinations in the wireing . So theres no shortage using that wire .

fendermanz said:

Just picked up a project 750 norton has 72 motor 2om3s starts with 152serial.

Click to expand...

That's a '1971' engine (with the timed camshaft breather etc.). '1972' would be 2xxxxx with no 20M3S prefix, no timed breather, etc.

fendermanz said:

Can I use 72 wiring in the 69 frame? I'd rather keep it to the year of the motor?

Click to expand...

You could, but it would be the more complicated, expensive and unnecessary way to go about it, for instance, one example is a '1969' had a single Wipac Triconsul handlebar switch cluster instead of two Lucas switch clusters etc. so by the time the later two piece harness had been made to fit there would be nothing to be gained because the engine connections are basically the same but the rest of the harness isn't. The '69 harness is one main section, the later harness is made in two parts, main and headlamp sections.

fendermanz said:

Also I just want to confirm I can fit an updated 850 centre stand in this Frame? it has the curved plate with holes, im guessing just have to make the hole a bit bigger. I've read the other posts.

Click to expand...

I don't know where you've read that but the 1969 stand attaches to brackets on the frame cross-tube under the gearbox. The 850 stand attaches to the engine cradle.

fendermanz said:

Once I figure how to show a pic I will

Click to expand...

You either need to become a VIP member so you can upload images directly or upload them to a picture hosting website then embed the images (or links to the images) in your message.

Matt Spencer said:

Apparently a Mk III loom is T 160 without a few connected .

Click to expand...

I don't know what any of this has to do with (an 850?) Mk3 harness which again, would unsuitable and as an owner of both types then it isn't exactly a "T160 without a few (wires) connected".

L.A.B. said:

That's a '1971' engine (with the timed camshaft breather etc.). '1972' would be 2xxxxx with no 20M3S prefix, no timed breather, etc.

Andover Norton Spare Parts Drawings - Genuine Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Genuine Andover Norton Parts created from the original drawings.

andover-norton.co.uk

You could, but it would be the more complicated, expensive and unnecessary way to go about it, for instance, one example is a '1969' had a single Wipac Triconsul handlebar switch cluster instead of two Lucas switch clusters etc. so by the time the later two piece harness had been made to fit there would be nothing to be gained because the engine connections are basically the same but the rest of the harness isn't. The '69 harness is one main section, the later harness is made in two parts, main and headlamp sections.



I don't know where you've read that but the 1969 stand attaches to brackets on the frame cross-tube under the gearbox. The 850 stand attaches to the engine cradle.



You either need to become a VIP member so you can upload images directly or upload them to a picture hosting website then embed the images (or links to the images) in your message.



I don't know what any of this has to do with (an 850?) Mk3 harness which again, would unsuitable and as an owner of both types then it isn't exactly a "T160 without a few (wires) connected".

Click to expand...

Thank you, did not know the 69 harness was one piece. It registered in Canada as a 72 but your right , When I looked up the numbers it's a 71.

any big issues running this 71 in a 69 frame. Should I look for a 71 frame? 69 is sufficient?

fendermanz said:

any big issues running this 71 in a 69 frame. Should I look for a 71 frame? 69 is sufficient?

Click to expand...

The '71 20M3S engine is much the same as a '69 20M3S. The engine and gearbox are installed in the cradle so it makes no real difference as far as the frame is concerned.

As you've learned from the engine ID, indentifying a Norton by year is suspect.
Is it really a 69 frame? The very early Commando frames were weak at the headstock.
This was corrected. I think the number of the change is 129897.
Les can correct or verify. The older frame can be corrected.
My concern would be, which frame to do you have?
Post a picture of the frame and we can identify it.

That being said, Commando engines and trans will mix and match with all year Commanco frames.

MichaelB said:

Is it really a 69 frame? The very early Commando frames were weak at the headstock.
This was corrected. I think the number of the change is 129897.

Click to expand...

Although at least one source quotes that number (which seems a little late) the official recall document says " WITHIN THE SERIES OF ENGINE NUMBERS 126125 TO 128634" and is probably the more accurate of the two, therefore, (should be) corrected by '1969' if the frame is indeed 1969.

reason I was thinking of the 71 harness was that I'd like to put the turn signals on, maybe boyer electric in future. Shoukd I just stick with the 69 then one piece? will it work with the 700ss headlight ?

fendermanz said:

reason I was thinking of the 71 harness was that I'd like to put the turn signals on,

Click to expand...

You may find the green/red and green/white wires are in the latest (Wassell) Lucas harness although the flasher relay and direction indicator switch has to be wired in but you would still have to fit a suitable handlebar switch if you bought the later harness.

fendermanz said:

maybe boyer electric in future.

Click to expand...

Electronic ignitions such as the Boyer normally attach to the original wiring with little modification and wouldn't be any more difficult to connect to a '69 harness.

fendermanz said:

Shoukd I just stick with the 69 then one piece? will it work with the 700ss headlight ?

Click to expand...

A '69 (Fastback, 'S' Type or 'R' Type) would have had the SS700P BPF (British Pre-Focus) bulb type headlamp, however, reflector units have often been changed and there's more than one type of SS700P headlamp shell.

fendermanz said:

Thank you, did not know the 69 harness was one piece. It registered in Canada as a 72 but your right , When I looked up the numbers it's a 71.

any big issues running this 71 in a 69 frame. Should I look for a 71 frame? 69 is sufficient?

Click to expand...

The center and side stands are terrible before 71 (frames with the center stand mounted to the frame rather that the cradle). Be careful when talking dates and Nortons - they did not have actual model years. Basically, there are three Commando frames: Center stand on the frame, Center Stand on the cradle pre-MK3, and MK3. The frames with the center stand on the frame have a short side stand, the rest have a long side stand. Look crosswise at the short stand and the bike will fall over.

If you're a good welder, you can change the pre-MK3 frame to be the better one but it takes a good bit of cutting and welding and even then the backend may not be perfect (should work).

fendermanz said:

reason I was thinking of the 71 harness was that I'd like to put the turn signals on, maybe boyer electric in future. Shoukd I just stick with the 69 then one piece? will it work with the 700ss headlight ?

Click to expand...

I have a 1970 engine, frame and wiring harness. I fitted turn signals, its very straightforward to add some wires alongside the existing wires, I just pretty much ignored the existing wiring and tapped into the battery wires and added a fuse. So it now has two fuses!

I also fitted boyer electronic ignition, you just move some wires round, add the electronics and its done. But look at all the alternatives, Boyer might not be the best electronic ignition now,

So, don't even think about replacing the entire wiring harness just to do those two simple jobs. On later bikes components moved around so it you put a newer harness on, you'd have to relocate some stuff. If the existing wiring is damaged, then change it, but otherwise leave it alone.

The 68/69/70 all have the same stands as mine, and it is different from later ones, and much worse as people have said. But welding bits onto a frame isn't something I'd want to do . Andover Norton sell the correct early stands, I fitted a new side stand earlier this year, and its much better than the original, which was worn out at the pivot. The side stand is very short, and you do have to be careful how you park, but I've run with just a side stand, no centre stand for almost 50 years and I think the bike has only fallen over twice, one of those was because it was on soft ground and it was a severe storm, so just be careful and you'll be OK.

The one thing to care about is the strength of the frame, look under the tank, there should be two frame bars, one fat one thin, if you have two then you're OK. If there is only one, then get the frame to an expert and get it upgraded.

MichaelD said:

I have a 1970 engine, frame and wiring harness. I fitted turn signals, its very straightforward to add some wires alongside the existing wires, I just pretty much ignored the existing wiring and tapped into the battery wires and added a fuse. So it now has two fuses!

I also fitted boyer electronic ignition, you just move some wires round, add the electronics and its done. But look at all the alternatives, Boyer might not be the best electronic ignition now,

So, don't even think about replacing the entire wiring harness just to do those two simple jobs. On later bikes components moved around so it you put a newer harness on, you'd have to relocate some stuff. If the existing wiring is damaged, then change it, but otherwise leave it alone.

The 68/69/70 all have the same stands as mine, and it is different from later ones, and much worse as people have said. But welding bits onto a frame isn't something I'd want to do . Andover Norton sell the correct early stands, I fitted a new side stand earlier this year, and its much better than the original, which was worn out at the pivot. The side stand is very short, and you do have to be careful how you park, but I've run with just a side stand, no centre stand for almost 50 years and I think the bike has only fallen over twice, one of those was because it was on soft ground and it was a severe storm, so just be careful and you'll be OK.

The one thing to care about is the strength of the frame, look under the tank, there should be two frame bars, one fat one thin, if you have two then you're OK. If there is only one, then get the frame to an expert and get it upgraded.

Click to expand...

Micheal thank you for this valuable information. I gotta figure out how to post pics. maybe I'll make a YouTube video. I'm thinking I'm better off with the 69 one piece and then add on whatever later. Right now there is no wiring harness , it's a huge mess of unproperly crimped connections. So I need a new basic harness to start from. It has the thinner headlamp on it but the oval 700ss with the 3 red green amber indicators came in a box with it.

The centre stand I would like one on. I heard we can put the 850 upgraded one with drilling the hole bigger in the cradle.
my kickstand right now is bad, it doesn't stay and moves at times, the bike will fall over, I put a swing arm stand under it for now.
I have both bars as you said and weld looks good.

did u add the Lucas handlebar controls for your turn digests. also short stem front and long stem back? my goal is to make it look cafe but update anything I can and ride it. I just restored a 78 flh1200 had to rewire that suckered. always wanted a norton. Got to ride one years ago loved it. I've had a few triumos but I just over the nortons more. thanks for all the reply. I'm trying yo order parts to get ready to clean it up and put it back together.

fendermanz said:

The centre stand I would like one on. I heard we can put the 850 upgraded one with drilling the hole bigger in the cradle.

Click to expand...

Yes, if the cradle has already been modified to take the later stand because a '69 cradle wouldn't have the holes or you would have to drill them unless it's a later cradle.

L.A.B. said:

Yes, if the cradle has already been modified to take the later stand because a '69 cradle wouldn't have the holes or you would have to drill them unless it's a later cradle.

Click to expand...

could be a later cradle. I do see the small hole for the spring with the bolt holes. what was the drill hole size for the 850 stand? I'll have yo look that up.

fendermanz said:

could be a later cradle. I do see the small hole for the spring with the bolt holes. what was the drill hole size for the 850 stand? I'll have yo look that up.

Click to expand...

I'm not absolutely sure the cradle pivot holes need to be enlarged but the '850' stand 06.4057 pivot bushes must be used.

the aluminum squareish handle bar lever mount / switch blocks - Are disasembleable - to clean & align the contacts etc .
But , a relay to high beam , or both , would get a feeder current through the contacts , with the working current Via the relays .

If youre ' cafeing ' it , looking at period race machines gets a authentic spec . If it hast got the side stand bracket sticking out ,
the closer in Prod. race. pipes fit up & under more . Some ran side Pipes for ground clearance .

HOBOT here , in search , goes into ' steering ' tho the conclusion was you cant beat a 3rd isolastic UNDER the GEARBOX .
Uses hiem joint links to stabilise the sucker . a replicer frame in chome moly would be stiffer . if not inexpensive .

the Swing arm Pivot needs carefull attention . Later ones had dual cotter pins to lock it . The narrowness there dosnt help .
A Kiwi ' ride to work ' won in the wet , NS 250 suspension on a alloy back yard cradle . ( Back Yard in N Z is back door of the engineering shop )
You mightve noticed the cradle isnt the lightest item on the machine . Works 750s ran carbs bored to 33mm.

And then theres . . . .

Used Trailer Wireing wire for switch blocks . on a H D . comes in 5 & 7 core - late colour codes .



Thats the Hillman wireing . 482 quids a bit off . usually theyre free . The PLASTIC SHEATHS ( Top right etc )
are clear flexable thick things . the Hight of sophistication . the knee bones conected to the . . .



Keep a fire extinguisher handy . and have it so you can rip off the earth . if youre not to sure .
( where it says ' bolt to ground ' . a fuse in that lines not unusual . that way you can have everything fail in a bend at night )
Therefore , if you construct it as the seperate systems , theyre independent . Should be trouble free & fail safe , if you dont
trap a wire somewhere . a bit more sophisticted diagrams are on google pictures . But seperate essentials the ancinalrys like
indictors & cigar lighters .

you guys are all superhelpful. Thanks for the part number for the larger bushings, I read about needing those for the center stand.

fendermanz said:

what was the drill hole size for the 850 stand?

Click to expand...

The 06.4057 bush diameter that fits into the cradle is (approximately) 0.557".

There is also a conversion bush 06.4873 to fit the later stand to the earlier cradle.
(I believe .628" should be 0.682" as that is the 06.4057 pivot larger diameter section)

Both bush types are shown in AN's centre stand kit.

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/23125/centre-stand-kit-1968-1969-commando- If you just want a centre stand, you could just fit the original centre stand, AN have them
Not sure why you'd want a later stand?

Definitely get the AN sidestand, its much better than a swing-arm add on.

For my indicators I got a kit which included a pretty rubbish add-on indicator switch. The problem is that it has to go inboard of the dip/main beam switch on the left, so to indicate I have to let go of the bars to reach over the dim switch to operate the indicator. When turning off roundabouts, it feels very uncomfortable letting go of the left grip to work the indicator then grabbing the bar to make the turn. I've ordered a combined domino multi-switch, the same as the one on the 961 Commando, that should fix all the concerns.

MichaelD said:

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/23125/centre-stand-kit-1968-1969-commando- If you just want a centre stand, you could just fit the original centre stand, AN have them
Not sure why you'd want a later stand?

Click to expand...

The later stands don't have a big toe crusher, they work with the tires most use, bikes don't fall over, they don't have a tiny stop on each side that wears out quickly, the bottom frame members don't bend upwards. and so on...

The only thing I find worse on those frames is the terrible side stand and that's even though I absolutely hate making the frame mounted stands somewhat usable!

Of course, that's just me - whatever floats you boat