"MOM!!!! Norton kicked me!!!!"

So today i finnaly ran my bike in confidence. I changed the oil last week and now run redline 20-50 with about half quart of lucas oil stabilizer. oil was good, and new pipes made the bike look awsome too! I started it , let it war up, then took it out for some fun. I imidiately noticed about 30HP increase. I always ran conventional oils and only rode the bike about 80 miles since ive had it. This bike was completely difrent since the last time I rode it. I was super surpriced and I had a huuuuuge smile on my face when I was riding. The I got about 8 miles into the ride and the bike started sputtering, so i figured pull over and get some gas, as soon as I pulled to the pump the bike cut out. I checked the gas and the tank was almost full. I let it sit for about 5 mins and tried to start it , and thats when it happened, the kick starter almost ripped mi leg off with back pressure. It took me a few kicks and then I got it going, I got the bike about 2 more miles and it cut out again but this time in the middle of the street. I tried to start it but it just wouldnt start, I pulled over and let it sit for a few minutes and it started after a couple kicks. once again, it got me about another 2 miles and cut off, I had to push it about 1/8 mile and had to call a tow truck. before the tow truck got there, the bike had cooled off and I tried to see if i could get it running again, it kicked back at me a few times and then I got it to run, I flipped the light switch and it just turened off!!! really weird, does anyone know why this could be? I have not cheched the battery yet, I dont even whant to look at the bike because im so mad right now. I rewired the bike just to run and nothing else, the lights are on a diffrent circuit so the only thing I figured is the battery.

Interesting problem!

Have you checked your battery is charging? Your symptoms could be consistent with low voltage...the battery may be recovering a little with the ignition off, but not receiving a charge when the engine is running. When you mentioned switching the lights on it reminded me of similar issues I had a while back - that was a shorted alternator lead.

B+Bogus said:

Interesting problem!

Have you checked your battery is charging? Your symptoms could be consistent with low voltage...the battery may be recovering a little with the ignition off, but not receiving a charge when the engine is running. When you mentioned switching the lights on it reminded me of similar issues I had a while back - that was a shorted alternator lead.

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yeah i know, i gotta check the battery, im just so mad right now, i mean, if my bike had a face id punch it. hahahha, but would that make the bike have that much back pressure when I kick it over? what is that pressure even come from?

The pressure comes from the fuel igniting, when this happens at kick cranking speed with advanced tiiming the piston reverses direction and you get the kickback, these has been known to break limbs on big singles. If you have a Boyer fitted this is a common symptom of reduced battery voltage, so you either have a bad battery or it is not being charged by the bike.

I noted from one of your previous poss that you have a Boyer ignition, Tympanium and 2MC, and as kommando says, severe kickbacks and cutting out is usually associated with a low voltage problem. So either the battery isn't charging, the battery has failed or maybe the 2MC starting capacitor is leaking to ground?

I also noted from your previous posts that you've recently done some rewiring, so maybe something isn't connected correctly? post47096.html#p47096

Looking in a completely different direction, are you sure the fuel cap vent isn't blocked? I'm thinking of the spluttering to a stop after a period of normal running rather than the kicking-back!
Dave.

30HP increase from redline oil - i got to get me some of that i guess

I'd strongly agree with looking at the battery/wiring. The symptoms (which I also experienced a few years back when I first bought my Commando) strongly point to an electrical power issue. The fact that when you turned on the headlight the engine quit is, IMHO, the ultimate proof of insufficient elec power. Whether that is caused by a bad batt, bad charging, bad wiring or a combination of all three will have to be determined by troubleshooting.

I know many, if not most folks will disagree with me on this but removing the Boyer that was on the bike and going back to points improved the way the bike started, ran, and acclerated in every way. As far as starting, the points don't change their advance based on battery voltage.

improved the way the bike started, ran, and acclerated
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But the thing is Mike, how long did that improvement last? It's ok if you don't mind cleaning/re-setting the points every couple of months. I fitted my Boyer ignition in about 1976 and haven't had that points cover off since! The starting and running was improved massively when I got rid of the points,
Dave.

I agree that certainly the points require periodic maint, including dissassembly/cleaining/lubing of the AAU but I never minded that much - because I felt the bike ran better with points (better ignition curve) and, in the realm of Norton maintenance, it didn't really bother me much. But it's certainly a personal decision. About a month ago I installed a Trispark which, IMHO, is an electronic Ignition system that took advantage of the best parts of the point system (easy starting/better advance curve/reliable spark at low batt voltage) and the capability of electronics (no maint/electronic "idle stabilazation")

Yeah, sure sounds like a charging situation to me. I had bad kickback and starting problems at one time, too. Turns out the relatively new boyer was bad, thus very spotty starting and running. Once replaced, the 2MC capacitor was found to be draining my battery charge, so after a few days sitting I still had a dying battery and kickback problems. And a noticeable limp from getting launched a foot in the air when I tried to start her up.

So, new ignition, scrapping the 2MC, and a new alternator and regulator fixed all my problems, until I had to replace the entire wiring loom, but that's another story......

Anyway, life is good now, she runs like a dream, and no longer punishes me with a swollen ankle for daring to start her up. Put a test light on the leads to that capacitor when your ignition is off and check to see that it's not drawing down your battery. If that light comes on, replace the 2MC or throw it away. Charge your battery fully, start the bike, and then check your voltage. Should be giving you some spare volts and amps to recharge the battery (13.5-14V range). Turn the bike off and check the voltage. Then run the headlamp for a few minutes and check it again. Dropping voltage? Then you have a charging/battery problem. How old is that battery? Have you serviced it in a while? As was said earlier, maybe bad leads from the alternator?

I will agree with Daveparry as well
I changed my bike from points to electronic and found right away an improvement in starting ease of maintenance and improved performance. The thing with the Mark III Boyers, is it doesn't like low voltage.
Many have cursed the Boyers for their troubles (kick Back) broken gears etc when the problem was from some other part of the electrical system. As long as things are right in the voltage to the boyer it does its thing.
CNN

Regarding kick back, best defense, rotate until the bike is on the compression stroke, then follow thru with the kick that holds the kick start down until you verify the bike is turning over on its own. This is why you want one that starts on the first kick! The bike was engineered to keep you from riding home after too many pints. It is the auto-ejection feature.

PS-Are you mad enough at the bike to throw it away? Let us know what day garbage day is in your neighborhood!

As far as the "traditional" analog Boyer is concerned, the points (and the trispark) have a better advance curve for the engine, providing more power in the midrange and the same power in the upper range as the Analog Boyer. Dave Comeau did an advance curve plot some time ago that shows a comparison of the Boyer, points, and (I believe) the Rita and/or the Pazon. That, and the fact that the points/Trispark have 5 degrees LESS advance at kickstart speeds makes them less likely to kick back than the Boyer, assuming all are set for the proper max advance. Low voltage spark scatter is also impossible with points and less likely with the Trispark since it takes less power than the boyer. I know from checking my bike with the different systems that the points will still spark the plugs at 8v and the Trispark will do so accurately at 9.4v. The Boyer was erratic on my bike at 11.8v. However, it is possible that the Boyer was defective in some way. It was the only one I have ever had.

mikegray660 said:

30HP increase from redline oil - i got to get me some of that i guess

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yeah, all I could say is my jaw dropped when I took it out into the street!

L.A.B. said:

I noted from one of your previous poss that you have a Boyer ignition, Tympanium and 2MC, and as kommando says, severe kickbacks and cutting out is usually associated with a low voltage problem. So either the battery isn't charging, the battery has failed or maybe the 2MC starting capacitor is leaking to ground?

I also noted from your previous posts that you've recently done some rewiring, so maybe something isn't connected correctly? post47096.html#p47096

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AHHH, thats cool that you remembered my previous screw ups, hahahaha. So what would I have to replace for the battery to be recharged?

slupdawg said:

Yeah, sure sounds like a charging situation to me. I had bad kickback and starting problems at one time, too. Turns out the relatively new boyer was bad, thus very spotty starting and running. Once replaced, the 2MC capacitor was found to be draining my battery charge, so after a few days sitting I still had a dying battery and kickback problems. And a noticeable limp from getting launched a foot in the air when I tried to start her up.

So, new ignition, scrapping the 2MC, and a new alternator and regulator fixed all my problems, until I had to replace the entire wiring loom, but that's another story......

Anyway, life is good now, she runs like a dream, and no longer punishes me with a swollen ankle for daring to start her up. Put a test light on the leads to that capacitor when your ignition is off and check to see that it's not drawing down your battery. If that light comes on, replace the 2MC or throw it away. Charge your battery fully, start the bike, and then check your voltage. Should be giving you some spare volts and amps to recharge the battery (13.5-14V range). Turn the bike off and check the voltage. Then run the headlamp for a few minutes and check it again. Dropping voltage? Then you have a charging/battery problem. How old is that battery? Have you serviced it in a while? As was said earlier, maybe bad leads from the alternator?

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the battery is new, I bought it about 4 months ago. Im going to check out the bike in about a hour or so, im kind of sick from yesterday. I had to puch the bike and try and kick start it and struggled so much i started sweating and it was super cold outside. so now im sick too.

I'd be thinking it isn't wired right and is not charging the battery at all. To be fair this is the first time he has tried to wire a bike all by himself and that is always tough but a learning experience.

Cookie said:

I'd be thinking it isn't wired right and is not charging the battery at all. To be fair this is the first time he has tried to wire a bike all by himself and that is always tough but a learning experience.

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HEEYYY!!! Cookie! I still have your bottle of scotch I bought you! I have a new number too, I call the other day but someone else answered! anyways, my battery is putting out about 12.50V and then when I test it its a constant decrease of 00.01V every 2-3 seconds. I tested my tympatium and each wire from it was pulling a constant 00.02V. could that be the reason why the battery is dropping the charge?

When you called me I was driving to San Jose and the college kid who is staying with us, Spencer, answered. He told me Ringo called and would call back. I figured Ringo was trying to get the Beatles back together and needed a guitar player, I wondered why he didn't call back.
Charge it up and drive it over and we'll put the meter on it.