Manx road bike engines, new

This is no race replica, its getting close to the real thing back then.

Needs to be raced, like they were built to be....
Or taken out for a fast blat on Sunday morn, before all the traffic stirs !!??
And before someone spots the lack of modern conveniences, like a muffler...
 
Rohan said:
This would probably go quite well with that manx engine in it ? !!
Certainly pep up the performance a bit.
Quite a bit....


Time Warp said:

That would be a waste of a good 16H and take away any enjoyment immediately.
I came chose to buying one (WD16H) earlier in the year but the sellers wanted way to much money for bikes that they had no idea of work done engine wise. (That included WD M20's)
I am in no doubt a good side valve like that would chug across Australia or any other continent no problem.

Of course things are going off topic from a $23000 dollar engine that you would use for what given a rolling chassis would cost another ?
You then do what baby it to the local gathering of pipe smoking,pants tucked into sock brigade and rev it in the car park... whoom pa
You could give it a jolly good work out and foot the maintenance bill to match.
Anyone who has run bikes in close to race trim on the road will know what I mean.
Anyone who has built very expensive bikes that you actually use in all weather will also know.... otherwise it is somewhat pointless building them.
The double edged sword of building what you want then risking it by using it to to some percentage of its capabilities.
 
Gosh, you have just ruled out 90% of race replica, cafe, bobber, specials and custom built cycles.
Thats a fairly large chunk of the market ???

Wasn't the comment made that motorcycles in the western world moved from 'transport' to 'leisure' sometime in the 1950s approx ???
 
Rohan said:
Wasn't the comment made that motorcycles in the western world moved from 'transport' to 'leisure' sometime in the 1950s approx ???

I wouldn't know as I do not own any form of transport with more than two wheels,the last time I did own a 'car was 2007.

I would think motorcycles were cheap transport into the late 1970's at least and perhaps even later 'downunder when Japanese import cars became readily available in the late 1980's.
Cheap cars overruled what had been cheap transport (motorcycles) previously.

I suppose expensive is based on personal perception,in the case of this thread you are talking about a bike ($23K engine) in a finished state that might cost anywhere up to $40000 to build.
To my way of thinking that is a lot of money to have in one motorcycle that has a limited use and resale.
The percentage of people who could not only make the financial commitment to that but also use it in anger diminishes very quickly.

A good deal of what might be deemed British classics are in the sub $10000 range.
You then get (here) motorcycles like the Commando in the $10000 to $15000 bracket for what some might indeed regard as a very limited use bike. (against a 961 at over $30k)
Once you get over the $20000 mark things are getting some what serious between a pleasurable pursuit verses the risk of something happening to it.

90 % you say,how many Commando's on this site have a resale value of over $10000 let alone bikes over $20000 ? $30000 ?
One maybe two reported 961 purchasers and under $20k in the USA.
 
Time Warp said:
90 % you say,how many Commando's on this site have a resale value of over $10000 let alone bikes over $20000 ? $30000 ?
One maybe two reported 961 purchasers and under $20k in the USA.

What has this got to do with anything here ???
Leisure bikes, like we said.
Its only money, remember, you can't take it with you.

It could be commented that that 1927 ? Model 18 Norton pic you showed probably cost 2 years salary when it was new. (?)
How does that compare with $40k today ?
Bikes are much cheaper than they used to be too, a new Manx back when they were a current GP bike cost more than a house. !

It could also be commented that that 1927 ? Model 18 Norton you showed was Nortons roadgoing race replica of their IoM winning Model 18 - for 1925.
So that roadgoing Manx above, with lights and mufflers was a more modern version of the same thing....
 
I don't have a problem with Molnar Manxes etc. I think that is what we should all be racing. What irritates me is racing which pretends to represent what happened back in history, when the bikes are butchered to get more performance, and look shithouse as a result. An original manx is not a racing machine, it is a museum exhibit - the most beautiful motorcycle ever made. I'd be happy with a modern replica. If I race, I race - I don't pose for the cameras or bullshit on about eligibility, log books, periods, fuel, wheel sizes. If the other bikes have similar technology and capacity to my own, I'm happy to race against them. In fact I despair of that ever happening these days and I don't even watch modern historic racing. For myself, a nice quiet practice session on our local circuit is enough, especially when some other idiot on an old bike decides to have a go at me. I really love that !
 
I suggest it is very common for motorcyclists to confuse price with value. Price is an indication of value, however the proposition that 'something is only worth what you can get for it when you sell it' is false. A genuine 500cc short stroke manx can probably be bought for half the cost of a Molnar. Which one is worth more ? There is an old guy in Sydney who along with his father and brother raced in Europe in the fifties. They had the keys to the Norton factory. He has the Artie Bell Manx (won the IOM in about 1950 and was beaten the next year by Duke). To me and the owner that bike looks extremely valuable, particularly because of its history. If someone ignorant went to sell it, it would probably be fairly cheap, certainly much cheaper than a Molnar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artie_Bell
 
acotrel said:
He has the Artie Bell Manx (won the IOM in about 1950 and was beaten the next year by Duke). To me and the owner that bike looks extremely valuable, particularly because of its history. If someone ignorant went to sell it, it would probably be fairly cheap, certainly much cheaper than a Molnar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artie_Bell

I don't think so. A Manx with a winning history and a famous rider is likely to be worth more than a Molnar. This ex-Beart Manx sold for nearly ÂŁ62,000.

Manx road bike engines, new


http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21136/lot/337/
 
A Beart Manx is something else again. He was probably the best known and most successful private tuner of manxes. Most people probably wouldn't even know who Artie Bell was.
 
acotrel said:
Most people probably wouldn't even know who Artie Bell was.

Anyone in the market to buy a manx, if they googled 'artie bell manx norton' the 1st result they get is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artie_Bell

Since he mostly won on factory bikes, any manx he won on would be worth a motza.
Especially since not too many of those got into private hands ??
 
If somebody got that bike from a deceased estate, they might not know its identity. That happened with the Orrie Salter Rennsport BMW outfit. The was a video of the race where Bell had won the last senior TT (1950?) , and then the next year Duke started 20 seconds behind him and passed him on the last lap - both on works Nortons. Back in the fifties the racers knew that had happened. The first road race meeting I ever attended was at Fishermans' Bend in 1954 when I was 14. I watched Duke on the Gilera absolutely cream every other rider. When you say the Artie Bell manx is 'worth a motza', what does that really mean - how can you put a number on it which represents its true value ? It is a 'works manx' however it had a place in the hearts of a lot of guys who are now long dead and gone. $60,000 for the Beart Manx - if I was a millionaire I'd own it right now.
You cannot put a price on some of that stuff, what is the true value of the Mona Lisa ?
 
I completely agree on value, and that a monetary figure can never truly be assigned to racing machines with real history. At the end of the day, when something like that Francis Beart Manx comes up for sale, the auction hammer will come down at some figure, so in a sense, that's it's current market value. But I for one, would pay far more, if I was in a situation where I had the money. Money is no object for these bikes. It's an arbitrary figure.
I think that anyone in love with old Nortons should feel that way. There's not much of a money making endeavor when selling them, so it comes down to sentimental value, which of course varies from person to person, and how they feel about a certain bike. I sometimes get asked how much my Atlas is worth, and I always answer the same; that it has no monetary value to me, because I'll never sell it. So it's actual monetary value has no reference in my mind. I've got far more money into it than someone would pay for it. And then you add on it's real value, which is the time and energy spent to build it, maintain and then ride and enjoy it, and the sentimental value that I get from those experiences, far outweighs it's actual worth in dollars.
Something like a Molnar Manx, while being expensive, is an entirely different sort of machine. Normally purchased by someone with money that wants to participate in vintage racing of some sort. In reality, that's it's only worth, is to be ridden and enjoyed without fear of wrecking it and wiping out it's history, since it really has no history. And the fact that it exists for that sole purpose, is a beautiful thing. Very few of us will ever be able to afford one, so the point is useless., But it serves it's purpose. It's just that it's purpose is very different than owning an original Manx.
 
The motor at the start of this thread is made by Works Racing.

Putting aside all the pros and cons of replica engines, replica bikes etc etc - if you want a replica Manx engine this is the one to get.

I asked the Swallows (Bill and Chris) for their opinion of the best replica Manx engines and they said this is the one to chose. Chris rode one of them in the Landsdown series a few years back. Chris also used one of their engines to get a second place in the 500 Manx GP in 2012.

http://chrisswallowracing.com/history-results/
 
So many bikes to build and ride, so little time.

I enjoy my Commando more than my sport bikes because she outstrips most peoples' expectations; looks good, runs good, narrow wheels/tires, yet she can run with the big dogs. That would be more so with a streetable Manx; I'd just love to ride with some late model supermotards on that old two valver.
 
Snorton74 said:
Why do the pipes always cut across the cases like that on Manxs and Tritons? The third bikes exhaust looks so much better IMO. I'd take one of those repro Manxs if I had the cake. Why not. When everyone finally catches up to you, tell them you just couldn't justify putting hard miles on an original. So in fact you're helping to preserve history.?

On Manxes and Gold Stars, it could be to shorten the pipe, for tuning reasons.

On things like Tritons, it's usually to make it look like a Manx or Gold Star exhaust.

Or it could be claimed it fits under a race fairing better.
 
A really beautiful bike, however wasted on public roads. Anyone who ever rode a manx on a race circuit would never build it. How could you ever wring it's neck and feel what really can do without the police falling in love with you? You could end up with a striped sun tan.
A good manx helps you give vent to every aggressive instinct.
 
The Featherbed Manx was a historical accident and Bracebridge Street's original intention was to use the superior 16H engine. However, the AMC takeover put an end to the project as Plumstead realised that no-one would buy Matchlesses any more.

Manx road bike engines, new



The surplus works 16H Featherbed frames were cobbled together with leaky old camshaft engines and punted out to race-track poseurs.
 
S'pose they could have issued the Homeguard with Norton Inters then ?
None of that speedster 16h stuff for them...

Manx road bike engines, new
 
acotrel said:
A really beautiful bike, however wasted on public roads. Anyone who ever rode a manx on a race circuit would never build it. How could you ever wring it's neck and feel what really can do without the police falling in love with you? You could end up with a striped sun tan.
A good manx helps you give vent to every aggressive instinct.

you maybe right, however I feel very few people have ÂŁ33,000 in their bank account to enable them to buy one :shock:

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/class ... z2lTVI8dRJ
 
Back
Top