Lubricating Swing Arm

I am curious about what tool people are using to inject 140 weight oil to the swing arm spindle through the stock fitting.
I appreciate that the fitting is an oil fitting, not a grease fitting.
I also understand that some folks employ workarounds, using grease guns, sight tubes, hypodermic needles, etc, etc.

But my question is: What tool works best for delivering 140 weight through the stock fitting?

I have a collection of old English grease and oil guns, like those found here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/tf210.html

None of them appear to hold or deliver fluids worth a damn.

Thoughts??

Stephen Hill

I find my wife's turkey baster works well for that purpose

any normal syringe will also do fine with the needle removed, unscrewed

If you rig up an oil line between the swing arm an a 30ml bottle, you can have a permanent gravity feed of the 140 oil.
easy-peasy
Dereck.

check this site out. Myself and others have described how we do it.

I pull the fitting and inject oil with a big syringe I have. If the bearings are new and tight, that 140 stays in there pretty good.

I think the original small hand held tool was called Tecalemit grease gun. I've seen them pop up on ebay every now and then. But do a search on it and there is a lot of info on them.

Nortarly wrote: "I think the original small hand held tool was called Tecalemit grease gun. I've seen them pop up on ebay every now and then. But do a search on it and there is a lot of info on them."

I cleaned grease out of two of these old style guns, and when I loaded them with oil it ran out of every orifice except the working end. This may be because the plungers were made of cork, and poor fitting on the shaft and bore. Perhaps they are made for grease or oil and are not interchangeable. I tried one with an o-ring bore seal and it was also useless.

To get the job done, I modified a zerk fitting (removed the spring and ball and opened it up), attached a short length of hose, and used an oil can to pressure lube the spindle through the hose. Worked fine.

Interesting that nobody lubricates the swingarm using the original fitting with a purpose built "oil gun".

Stephen Hill

I got an oil gun from McMaster - Carr and it works very well. It holds about a lifetime supply of oil for the Swing Arm spindle. Make sure that the spindle retaining bolt is removed before adding oil and also add the oil slowly to prevent the end caps from falling off.

On my bike I vented the spindle retaining bolt and added an overflow hose to it. That way it simplifies servicing and prevents pressure build up which could cause leaking past the seals.

McMaster-Carr page listing oil guns: http://www.mcmaster.com/#oil-guns/=y2tiws

This is the one I bought:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#1811K1

They also sell oil guns that cost more:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#1811K1
http://www.mcmaster.com/#1879K21
http://www.mcmaster.com/#1811K2

Stephen Hill said:

I am curious about what tool people are using to inject 140 weight oil to the swing arm spindle through the stock fitting.
I appreciate that the fitting is an oil fitting, not a grease fitting.
I also understand that some folks employ workarounds, using grease guns, sight tubes, hypodermic needles, etc, etc.

But my question is: What tool works best for delivering 140 weight through the stock fitting?

Thoughts??

Stephen Hill

Click to expand...

I unscrew the fitting and fill the swing arm pivot with 140 oil using a disposable Fleet enema squeeze bottle. Always have
one in my shop. Many uses. :shock: $1.29

Well, that's appropriate, the orifice is at the dirty lower end of the bike . . . . . .

The correct tool is a type of grease gun filled with oil you press out let tube into hole then press on its butt to force oil in the fill hole on side of cover plates in the 750 style spindle seals. Some of these have a handle to pump but traditional vintage just slide on them selves. ONLY reason for lube in swing arm is to prevent hardened spindle surface from rusting and flaking away as friction is taken care of by the soft dry bronze bushes. If spindle and bushes allowing easy in out then I would say best practice is just slip out once a year or so and smear with grease. I have put grease nipple in but find to place them to get at w/o disassemblly puts DS zerk too near loose chain flop to get snagged out and grease stays in so long to protect from rust. If I stayed ahead of fast wearing chain adjusting in my conditions worked as planned but just hopping on to ride w/o checking each time ...

ONLY reason grease is frowned on by the unknowing is the unkowing tried to grease through the oil zerk w/o opening up spindle holes so would not really reach the wear surfaces which would then be found rusted up. I one made a fat feed tube resivoir filler in center fixing bolt but after special break in oil fil so thick it would not drip off knife blade till a day later --- All leaked out over cold winter hanging form rafters I became a confirmed greaser with no drool to clean up.

hobot said:

... I have put grease nipple in but find to place them to get at w/o disassemblly puts DS zerk too near loose chain flop to get snagged out...
...I became a confirmed greaser with no drool to clean up.

Click to expand...

Same here, although my zerk is on the right-hand side and easily accessible. First mistake I made with this arrangement was trying to get the grease clear across the swingarm too quickly. 'Pulled the through-screw's head clean off! Now, I just add a couple of pumps and wait to hear/see grease oozing out of the o-rings from both sides to know that all is well.

Nathan

Made me giggle Nathan on the double takes best Commando intentions sometimes produce. If we could seal all moisture out there is such slow low motion the dissimilar metals would be plenty and wear resistant bone dry.

They put those felt washers in there for a reason and it wasn't to hold grease. :shock: :shock: :shock:

The reason to use 140 oil over grease is that the bronze bushing used is only a bearing when impregnated with oil. Grease in brass bushings is a whole nother deal. With it you must always have a layer of grease whereas the bronze bushing produces its own layer of lubricant slowly but surely as long as you charge it once in a while.

If ya can keep spindle covered in oil or grease or seal dry bronze from moisture then all is well but if the oil get low enough that what remains in bronze does not cover hardened rust prone spindle - rust flakes wear it not by friction but by corrosion. OIl fill in not gotten often enough over the top of spindle rust can strike. These babies need ya so do not skip a feeding.

Yellow_Cad said:

The reason to use 140 oil over grease is that the bronze bushing used is only a bearing when impregnated with oil. Grease in brass bushings is a whole nother deal. With it you must always have a layer of grease whereas the bronze bushing produces its own layer of lubricant slowly but surely as long as you charge it once in a while.

Click to expand...

+1

Oilite type bushings don't seem to be understood by Norton owners for some reason. They are porous and hold oil. Grease fills the porosity and will eventually gum up the works. Any advantage in solving a rust issue is outweighed by the problems that grease will cause. Most people don't take the swing arm apart very often, so oil is the right lubricant.

How stuff works...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAwIiH-g2tg
Grease is oil held in a suspension of carrier soap or clay. The carrier will clog the pores of the sintered bush. Use oil or you will destroy the bush.
Ta.

My parents made me a slicked down vasaline hair greaser and my brother a crew cut head with wax to last. All the above factoids are perfectly correct but do not apply to Norton swing arm spinldes. The only problem giving grease a bad reputation in Nortons is mistake trying to grease from the oil fill zerk w/o providing path of the grease by opening tiny spindle holes and sprial groove bushes. IF not grease passes out the seals before reaching where its needed to protect from rust that wears the spindle. The 2 rusted spindles I suffered throught had by far most the wear on spindle which had like 1/16 lips offset from each other preventing any twist to clear lips as if one aligned to slide out another was trapping, ugh. Close exam showed it was rust removing the hard surface then iron oxide grind paste that did not eat much of the bronze at all. I bought larger size spindle but found the original bushes would not pass it so had to ream bushes before grooved at bit.

Oilite bearing are supposed to be oiled while heated and it takes some heat to release oil which only occurs *if* a shaft is spun in bush 100's to 1000's of rpm not just slow partial turn oscillation. Disimular hardernes and metal interfaces of steel on bronze is self lubricating dry as a bone and no way can the case hardened spindle wear > working in dry bronze > unless some grit gets in and then bronze tends to embede it below wear surfaces. THE only grit that can get into our semi-sealed swing arms comes from rust flakes off the hardened spindle surface. Semi sealed in Nortons means road grit can't get in but moisture can. Wax and soap will last and lube better longer than oil if the oil level gets below top of spindle to dry out *as* there is not enough heating motion to release enough oil to matter for rust. After 2 greaser Combats I now think even modifying for grease zerks is waste of time and vunlerable zerk on chain side as greased spindle is so easy to slip in/out I would just smear grease once a year or so but still good idea to groove bushes a bit. It is rust to worry about not friction till rust begins its chewing. So next subject to discuss is what is best grease to use and what to do with excess time freed up with less cleaning and oiling...


Q: Can different oil or grease be used in sintered bronze bushings:
A: Yes. High temp, wax based ( anti-migration )
Q: What is the porosity (oil by volume) of a sintered bronze bearing?
A: 22%

http://machinedesign.com/archive/grease ... lubricated
Plain bearings usually use Grades 0 through 2. Softer grades, 0 and 1, are easier to feed to rows of machine elements, but offer less mechanical stability than Grade 2 grease. Nevertheless, they adhere to sleeve bearing surfaces and handle shear forces from oscillatory motion better than regular, unthickened oils.

And grease is better sealer to boot so win win if a lazy ass hick greaser...
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... ubrication
The apparent viscosity of grease changes with shear (pressure, load and speed) that is, greases are non-Newtonian or thixotropic. Within a rotating journal bearing, as the bearing rotates faster (shear rate increases), the apparent viscosity of the grease decreases and approaches the viscosity of the base oil used in grease. At both ends of the bearing shell, the pressure is lower and therefore the apparent viscosity remains higher. The resulting thicker grease at the bearing ends acts as a built-in seal to reduce the ingression of contaminants.

Dry vs lube friction of various materials
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/frict ... d_778.html

Grease is a no no for sintered bushes for the reasons already given as it clog the bush. Put a fresh new bush in a shallow pool of oil and leave overnight, the oil will seem to disappear as it is sucked into the bush by capillary action, if it has been greased no oil will be absorbed. So the swing arm bushes work best with oil and only need it once or twice a year as long as the leak is not too bad the bushes will absorb the oil and retain it until a fresh charge is given.

Whats on my mind long term is periods of sitting the oil drools out below top of spindle so humidity pumps in out some daily. Never let that happen long and oilswell. If sticking with factory type lube in plain bushes, brush up on bronze bush basics here.


Together, the pair developed a process of compressing powdered copper (88.5%) and tin (10%) with some graphite (1.5%) in a die, then heat treating it in a furnace in the absence of oxygen with just enough heat for the tin to melt and bond the copper particles. The result was “astonishingly high in physical strength” and about 40% porous. The bearing was therefore then impregnated with oil, by putting it into a high vacuum, then filling the area with oil, and boosting the pressure to force the oil into the pores. When wiped clean, the bearings would show no oil; but *increasing the temperature* through friction brought the oil out. When the temperature dropped, the oil was re-absorbed.
http://www.allpar.com/history/amplex.html

Might switch to plastic if ya can believe their propaganda.

Most plain bearings, on the other hand, are oil-filled,
sintered bronze that requires a separate lubricating film or
coating. Sintered-bronze bearings rely on capillary action
to create a lubricating oil film. Critically, however, high
speed and rotational motion are both required to draw the
oil out and maintain a full film of lubricant. Shaft oscillation,
slow speed, and intermittent use can all inhibit this process.
If movement stops, the oil on the bearing surface dries up.
This can lead to higher friction and squeaking. High tem-
peratures can also break down the oil.
http://www.igus.com/_wpck/pdf/US_en/Why ... 0Metal.pdf