Limited oil options

Hi again,

Ok, I've got an oil question, and I realize that there is a colossal amount of oil-related info here. But here is my problem:

I live in a remote community with only fly-in access for a big chunk of the year. For the other part of the year there is also a shipping by sea option. I was thinking I would be able to have fluids flown in fairly easily, but it's a much bigger issue than expected. I can get parts sent in, but fluids are dangerous goods, and its a bit of an issue for the auto-parts outlets in the region.

The good news is that there are 4 general stores in town and they do have some oil, just not a very good selection. Here is a photo of the entire oil section in the store that has the biggest range of options. I'm wondering if any of this stuff can be used in a Commando. Only one kind is specifically for motorcycles and it's 'Pro-Honda GN4 10W-30 4-stroke motorcycle oil'. Or am I better off using the mystery oil that was in the bike when I got it, or waiting for the ocean to thaw out so I can have some proper oil brought in that way. I'll do the latter anyway, but it would be nice to be able to get on the go in the meantime. Thanks again!



I'm not sure if you'll be able to read the labels from the photo. The internet is currently too slow here to be able to upload a larger version. Another one of the charms of northern living . Anyway, there are few enough there that I can write a list in about 2 minutes if necessary.

Here is a list of what's there since it's lookin pretty hard to read the labels:

1) chainsaw oil... no good
2) Castrol edge 0w-30, full synthetic... I assume this is of no use since it's full synthetic
3) Castrol edge 5w-20
4) 15w-40 IDO Premium Diesel
5) Castrol GTX 5W-20
6) Castrol GTX 5w-30
7) The GN4 motorcycle oil I mentioned in the first post

And that's it other than some outboard motor oil... oh boy..

You are going to get a lot of varied responses. But here is my best advice (which might still be poor). If you can't find one that is specifically rated for classic cars (mechanical lifters), I'd probably go with the Honda or Yamaha four-stroke oils. Take a look at the ratings on them, they are very good quality oils. I wouldn't be ashamed of using the diesel oil.

I remember Castrol Edge getting high praise in an article I read on cam wear. I think that source was in a vintage Corvette forum but that exact author is lost to me.

Russ

They’re all too thin.

I’d go with the diesel oil. I’m not sure of the specifics, but I thinks it’s the fact that diesels don’t have catalytic converters and they therefore still contain a lot of the additives that have been removed from modern petrol engine car oil.

A lot of folk swear by diesel oil in old bikes.

Awesome! Thanks rvich - so there might be some local oil hope yet. And thanks Fast Eddy - leaning pretty heavily towards the diesel at this point. Super relieved that there is something in town that I can get away with. Fantastic.

Like Nigel said, if you have to pick one, the diesel is the best choice. If you're riding in cold conditions, the 10-40 might even be the best grade. If the oil in the bike is reasonably clean, I'd stick with it until you can order in some proper 50W or 20W-50 motorcycle oil. You really don't want to use the 20 or 30 weight oils. The Commando specs list various 40W, 50W, and 20W-50 oils as suitable.

Ken

Thanks Ken - the temperatures are getting more reasonable here lately. It's generally above zero degrees Celsius during the days, usually between about 5 and 10 degrees this time of the year. It was up to 20 two days ago! That's unusual for late May though. It'll be warmer in a couple of weeks and I expect that when I'm ready to ride it'll probably be generally 10-20 or warmer. It'll be 25-30+ for a couple of weeks or more in mid-summer.

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask initially: are any of these ok substitutes for fork oil?

Can't quite read the label on the IDO Diesel, but it looks a lot like the labels on Diesel oils made by the Irving oil company in Canada. If it says Premium Plus, it's a modern CK-4 oil, and not as good for our old air cooled engines as the older CI-4 oils. The newer CJ-4 and CK-4 oils are supposedly not as good for us because of their reduced zinc and phosphorous content. The Porsche and Corvair guys are really negative about them. If it just says Premium, and doesn't say CJ-4 or CK-4, then it's probably old school diesel and much more suitable for our use. I can't find any info on-line about an Irwin IDO Premium line, so it might be an older stock. In any case, if it calls out CI-4 compliance on the label, and not CJ-4 or CK-4, you should be good to go. The IDO on the label just means Industrial Diesel Oil, and applies to all sorts of oils for diesels, including fuel oils.

Caveat: I'm not a petroleum engineer, so the above is just my opinion of the issue. I've used the old formulation Rotella diesel oils in Commandos with no issues in the past, as well as several other brands, but that was back before they took the ZDDP out. Now I pretty much stick to Redline oils for my Commando engines, but after reading some of the comments on other threads, I might look at other alternatives. Choosing an oil is worse than choosing tires, just too many choices to sift through.

Ken

Supercat said:

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask initially: are any of these ok substitutes for fork oil?

Click to expand...

Oh my! Now you've started it all over again. Seriously, Norton originally specified straight 20W motor oil for the forks, with 30W recommended for racing on bumpier circuits. Be aware that motor oil grades and fork oil grades are not the same. A 20W motor oil is not the same viscosity as a 20W fork oil. I've known Commando owners to use 10W-30 motor oil in their forks and be happy with it, so you might be ok with one of the oils you listed, but you'd have to try them to see.

Ken

Thanks Ken, it says IDO Premium Diesel, and then in a little box to the right is says 'CI-4 Plus' and something under that which I can't make out.

Awesome, thanks for the fork oil comment too Ken. I can try some of the 10w-30 stuff for those. It's got to be better than the old stuff that's in there now, and they are both a bit low now too.

Supercat said:

Thanks Ken, it says IDO Premium Diesel, and then in a little box to the right is says 'CI-4 Plus' and something under that which I can't make out.

Click to expand...

Well, at least it's not the newer formulation. Looks to me like it might be a reasonable choice, but I'd still order in something more oriented to an air cooled motorcycle when I could.

Ken

If you haven't already read this thread, you should. Lots of good info on suitable oils toward the end of the thread. The site Jim Comstock referenced,

Broken link removed

is a great read.

Ken

Fantastic, thanks Ken! I'll check out that link.

I would go for the diesel oil but caveat. It used to be much higher detergency than conventional oils and its use often resulted in blocked oil ways.

Regarding fork oil:

I suspect that every place on earth that has diesel oil will also have heavy equipment. I've used hydraulic fluid, ISO 46 or ISO 68 with good luck. I've never tried 10-30 so don't have a comparison. I just go to the Bobcat dealer and he sells me a quart out of his 55 gallon drum. ISO 32 is pretty thin for the application.

The Honda GN4 at 10W-30 is lighter than specified, but they do make it in 20W-50. According to Honda they have been making it the same way since 1975. I think the last jug of it I had here said it had an SJ API rating. I'd be curious what it says now.

Russ

I would stick with the Honda oil. Sounds like you are in Alaska or similar, riding season is going to be short, cool temps and not a lot of mileage. (Hence all the low viscosities), change the oil before you get snowed in and you are good to go next riding season (all of 3-4 months )

I might mention that, I live in a place where I can buy oil from the Honda dealer at extortion prices, go to NAPA where all the oils meet ultra-modern standards or I can go the bulk plant and buy Delo 100 40W with a service rating of CF-2. It has a 0.10% Zn by weight, which is pretty good.

The Delo 400 40W shows 0.122% Zn by weight. Amazingly, the local Costco carries it by the case and puts it on sale regularly. So guess what I'm running these days.