'Lectric Starters...?

MexicoMike · Jul 17, 2010

We 'don need no steenking 'lectric starters!

I spent a bit of time today on and off practicing at kicking through my 850 with no stands - just on it's wheels. And I'll be darned, I think I got it! I can now manage to do it consistently and after practicing with the ignition off and carbs drained, I turned on the fuel, tickled 'er up and the bike started on the first kick from cold.

As several folks pointed out, it just takes figuring out the bike's balance and working on the technique. It also helps a lot if the bike is set up right and is normally a one kick starter because you can't (or at least I can't) get more than one compression stroke per kick because I have to have the pedal pretty much parallel with the ground to start with. But it works! and it's not any harder on body parts (mine, not the bike's) than starting on the stand(s). I'm a happy guy!

So I want to thank those who pointed out that it's just a matter of learning the technique, not a matter of weight - I weigh 165 so I'm not heavy enough to scare the bike into starting!

So I'll add my voice to the "Yes we Can!" (kickstart, that is. Don't know about that other stuff.)

frank73x89 · Jul 17, 2010

Try starting it with a brand new steel right knee joint. And then tell me you don't need a ''lectric starter''. Now a bunch of guys like me are getting weak at the knee with time. Might not need a new knee but... I've had commandos for 30 years and just sold the last one cause of that . Just couldn't crank 'em anymore. If I'd had time and dough, I'd got one asap. To late as 2 years ago I bought a Norge (so far reliable in 10K miles).

MexicoMike · Jul 17, 2010

I was certainly NOT trying to insult or in any way criticize someone with an injury that prevents them from kickstarting and I'm sure that the day is not too far off where I won't be doing it either (I'm 64). But since I can kickstart it now without any difficulty ON the stands, l wanted to learn to do it without being on the stand. I absolutely agree that if I had a damaged knee/leg/whatever there would be no way I would be trying to kickstart it and either Alton or Old Britts would have my business as soon as their e-start products are avalalble.

Unclviny · Jul 17, 2010

I severely damaged my right Leg/Knee (open fracture right Tib and Fib, the Doctor had to take my Knee apart to fix the bones) years ago, I used a B50T that my buddy had for sale at his shop as a recovery-indicator, when I could get it started reliably (and pain-free!) I bought it.

I never understood what folks with bad Knees went through until then, staying on old British iron is a FEAT!

Getting a Commando fired up (no stands down) is tricky to learn but it's easy(er) once you have learned the trick(s).
I "cock" the Kickstarter to get the most out of it's travel/stroke,
I lean the bike to the left so that AFTER the stroke I will be upright (this takes a pretty big commitment, it's not for the faint of heart and learn this move ALONE!!).
Do not "Jab" at the Kickstart lever, "PUSH" it.

Unclviny

DogT · Jul 17, 2010

I always have to get it just over TDC, re-position the kicker at the top, and then put all my weight into it along with whatever muscle power I have. Always start it without stands. Learned that from an old BSA I had, but it had the compression release which was nice to get it over TDC for the single 500.

Dave
69S

Brithit · Jul 17, 2010

My day's coming for knee problems. At 56, I'm starting to have all kinds of aches and pains, and some circulation problems. I could probably start my Trident and Velo Venom, but my Combat would be the toughest. My MKIII has a Dave Comeau starter, and that has really impressed. I can start my Hodaka Ace 100B with my hand on a good day, so I'd better save that for the retirement home when I'm 90. Or maybe a nurse could do it for me! I'll ride something as long as I'm able. British, hopefully.

Unclviny · Jul 17, 2010

I have seen MANY of the "older-guys" in my local club get rid of (particularily) big singles because they cannot kick them anymore so I started buying smaller, low compression bikes because I am not getting younger. The Norton is the outlier but it offers relatively modern performance that just ain't happening with the other 2 bikes.

Unclviny

Jeandr · Jul 17, 2010

Some of you have probably seen me kicking that 80 degree Commando to life ( crankshaft-t2741.html ), seemed easy from the comments, but it *was* on the center stand which makes brigning it to life a lot easier. Wide bars also help a lot because I find kicking my café racer very hard with that type of bar. With my café held down on my work platform, I can start it with one kick, on wheels without a stand and clip-ons, it take a few more stabs.

Jean

Yellow_Cad · Jul 17, 2010

Has anyone got an opinion as to how much more difficult it is to kick a Commando over when it has a fresh top end. Also, 750 vs 850 vs other things.

Tintin · Jul 18, 2010

MexicoMike said:
I spent a bit of time today on and off practicing at kicking through my 850 with no stands - just on it's wheels.

I was told years ago by a veteran cyclist who was socialized when motorcycles were actually a poor man's means of transportation that people who kick-start motorcycles on their stand were usually tarred and feathered...... :mrgreen:

Tim

Rich_j · Jul 18, 2010

DogT said:
I always have to get it just over TDC, re-position the kicker at the top, and then put all my weight into it along with whatever muscle power I have. Always start it without stands. Learned that from an old BSA I had, but it had the compression release which was nice to get it over TDC for the single 500.

Dave
69S

Sounds like you're working too hard, a 360 twin should start really easily compared to a big single. The reason why there's no valve lifter on a twin is because they're a lot easier to start and there's no real need to nudge it past TDC.
All I do is push through one compression cycle, bring it to compression on the second and then kick it through. The kick is actually more of a push and doesn't take a lot of sweat or muscle, 90% of the time it fires first kick.

MexicoMike · Jul 18, 2010

"Has anyone got an opinion as to how much more difficult it is to kick a Commando over when it has a fresh top end "

Yes - it's harder! Obviously, that would depend on the condition of the top end before freshening. My 850 was in good shape generally with some oil smoke at idle indicating guides/seals. There was no indication of ring problems but I replaced the rings as well as installing new valves and seals. The engine requires noticeably more effort to kick through than before. I'm sure some of that initially was the new rings/friction but that was some months ago and it hasn't changed any. The engine is noticeably "sharper" and there is a lot more "pop" at the exhaust at idle so there is clearly more actual compression then there used to be. That part's great but it is harder to push through. I guess the easiest way to see the difference for me was that previously I could stand on the kick starter on compression and it would push through with a bit of "jiggling." Now it won't. It requires the "jump off the ground, come down on it" kick.

maylar · Jul 18, 2010

Yellow_Cad said:
Has anyone got an opinion as to how much more difficult it is to kick a Commando over when it has a fresh top end. Also, 750 vs 850 vs other things.

A fresh engine can go either way. Tighter pistons and better compression can make it harder, but a "happy" engine starts with fewer kicks. 850's are notoriously harder to kick than 750's tho I can't say why.

Mike, the balancing act becomes second nature after a while. Being able to start it on the wheels makes recovering from a stall in traffic a whole lot quicker.

grandpaul · Jul 18, 2010

Rather than get rid of a Commando due to medial issues, I'd attempt a trade for a Mark III, or sell the earlier model and buy a Mark III.

Another very important starting tip is to set your pistons just after TDC, engage the kicker at the top of it's stroke, then pull in the clutch and lower the kicker to YOUR optimal height for beginning your stroke. I do this at about the "10:00" position, rather than start from the "9:00" position as has been suggested (although that might be optimal for the ones suggesting it). That small difference can be all it takes to revolutionize your kicstarting procedure (once you've mastered the balance and leverage aspects).

Yellow_Cad · Jul 18, 2010

"850's are notoriously harder to kick than 750's tho I can't say why."

I only have an 850 and it now has a fresh top end. It was not extremely easy to kick over before refreshing but now it is definitely a handful. Comparing it to a 70 Triumph Bonneville, the bonny is nothing. It is interesting to hear Maylar say 850s are harder to kick than 750s. I always thought it would be the other way around due to the higher compression of the 750s.

Rich_j · Jul 18, 2010

If your 850 is difficult to start then I think you should spend a bit more time sorting out your carbs and ignitions out instead of looking longingly at Mk3's.

willh · Jul 18, 2010

MexicoMike said:
We 'don need no steenking 'lectric starters!

I spent a bit of time today on and off practicing at kicking through my 850 with no stands - just on it's wheels. And I'll be darned, I think I got it! I can now manage to do it consistently and after practicing with the ignition off and carbs drained, I turned on the fuel, tickled 'er up and the bike started on the first kick from cold.

As several folks pointed out, it just takes figuring out the bike's balance and working on the technique. It also helps a lot if the bike is set up right and is normally a one kick starter because you can't (or at least I can't) get more than one compression stroke per kick because I have to have the pedal pretty much parallel with the ground to start with. But it works! and it's not any harder on body parts (mine, not the bike's) than starting on the stand(s). I'm a happy guy!

So I want to thank those who pointed out that it's just a matter of learning the technique, not a matter of weight - I weigh 165 so I'm not heavy enough to scare the bike into starting! So I'll add my voice to the "Yes we Can!" (kickstart, that is. Don't know about that other stuff.)

Glad you persisted. It'll make you a lot happier knowing how to bring it to life while straddling.

Yellow_Cad · Jul 18, 2010

Rich_j said:
If your 850 is difficult to start then I think you should spend a bit more time sorting out your carbs and ignitions out instead of looking longingly at Mk3's.

I think difficulty in kicking through is what is being discussed here not difficulty in starting.

Rich_j · Jul 18, 2010

Still don't really understand the problem, the only suggestion I've got is fit Mk3 kickstart lever

slupdawg · Jul 18, 2010

On the topic of kick starting on wheels, can anyone tell me how difficult it might be to do this when riding 2 up? Harder, or about the same? I could see it being easier, perhaps, or harder, if your pillion is off-balance. Can't say I've been in a situation where I've had to try it.

'Lectric Starters...?

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