Layshaft baring failure

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ando

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I know there has been many threads on layshaft bearing failures but after just stripping a commando gearbox I found the brass cage to the layshaft bearing was broken in several places and the balls about to drop out. I have only replaced good layshaft bearings previously and have not paid a lot of attention to the bearing cage, particularly its thickness. This is the first time I have seen a bearing in the process of failing. The brass cage on the failing bearing was very thin, thinner than I have noticed on any bearing previously. This may possibly be due to wear but there appeared to be some fretting of the brass.
I have generally been under the impression that the bearings were faulty manufactured but I now wonder if some of the problem was the gear oil eating the brass as some of the older gear oils were reputed to have done to bronze bushes. A little fretting polished by the balls may lead to rapid wear. Has anyone else had a good look at the brass cage to the layshaft bearing when they have replaced it and can anyone confirm if older gear oils may eat brass as well as bronze.
Ando
 
ando said:
Has anyone else had a good look at the brass cage to the layshaft bearing when they have replaced it
Click to expand...

The brass cage of the layshaft bearing I removed looked to be in good condition with no apparent signs of corrosion although I have no idea how long that bearing had been in the gearbox.

Layshaft baring failure


ando said:
and can anyone confirm if older gear oils may eat brass as well as bronze.
Click to expand...

Brass is also a copper alloy (typically 60%copper/40% zinc) so could potentially be affected the same as bronze (copper/tin).
 
a lot of people including myself used this guy that mick hemmings recommends in his rebuild DVD
http://www.treatland.tv/FAG-6203TB-P63- ... -super.htm

this website used to sell them in the US, but appears to be out of them. I know you can order them from hemmings, i wen't to my local bearing distributor and they ordered me one from FAG for around $20. Hopefully the polyamide cage holds up! :|
Mine also looked pretty much like the one LAB posted, it had been sitting since 1990 in old gear oil, and not sure how long it was in there before that (didn't look original)
 
Like the Aston DB4 bearing failures ( They all happened on Sunday ) . the COMMON THREAD in Layshaft BEARING FAILURES , is that word there PORTUGAL : so it was said .
Portuagul ; for centuries a renouned manufacturor of Bearings :? WELL , Not Quite . Actually . How the frigging heck did they end up with PORTUGESE Ball Races . Smart Move .

DO ones other than the Portugese fail at under 100.000 miles ? ? ? :?:
 
Oh yes. Oh yes. British made at 14,000 miles for me. Full lockup screech-halt with cars up my ass , honking. 70 S. Roller replacement must have 60,000 on it now ,just rebuilt gearbox with all new seals, bushings etc. and it looked like new ,smooth as glass.
 
dougmatson said:
Here is what mine looked like, never found the balls that came out of the bearing either.
Layshaft baring failure
Click to expand...

That's because they are all acccounted for, just looks like missing balls because of the spacing is no longer correct due to the ejected cage.
 
Concours thanks for the link to the other thread as I had missed it in my search. The bearing has gone out with the trash so I can’t provide any photos but the brass in the cage appeared to be only half the thickness of the brass cage in dougmatson’s photo. The outside of the cage appeared pitted/fretted. The gearbox oil was not too dirty but I do not know any history as I only bought the box about a month ago. There is a roller in there now as supplied by RGM. thanks
Ando
 
When I replaced mine, I know for certain it was the original bearing and almost certainly the original lubricant. The cage looked ok, no sign of imminent failure or deterioration but then it only had 8K on it. I always assumed (just viewing some posted remains - no hard evidence) that the cage failure they're known for was due to wear internally where the cage connections are in contact with the balls??
 
Matt Spencer said:
Like the Aston DB4 bearing failures ( They all happened on Sunday ) . the COMMON THREAD in Layshaft BEARING FAILURES , is that word there PORTUGAL : so it was said .
Portuagul ; for centuries a renouned manufacturor of Bearings :? WELL , Not Quite . Actually . How the frigging heck did they end up with PORTUGESE Ball Races . Smart Move .

DO ones other than the Portugese fail at under 100.000 miles ? ? ? :?:
Click to expand...
FAG stuff is still made in portugal. I don't think it has anything to do with the country where they were made, as much as just a bad run of bearings
 
Always look for the words "Made in Germany" on the box. I have been to Portugal and Spain with my lovely wifey where we learned to become winos. Hic.
 
country of manufacture doesn't mean a thing, fords are made in mexico and look how well they last...ummm... :?
 
My 1982 300SD Turbo Diesel would beg to differ. German engineering and quality control is second to none.
 
Snorton74 said:
My 1982 300SD Turbo Diesel would beg to differ. German engineering and quality control is second to none.
Click to expand...

Wow... I had an '81 300SD Turbo for many years. Bought it off my Dad, who had it from new. It was absolutely perfect in every way and never gave me problems. Ever. (Except keeping the battery charged). Cost me $450.00 per month just to own with NYC Parking and insurance, and I only drove it about once every 2 months (thus the battery drain). Finally sold it a couple of years ago to some guy who promised me he'd take good care of it. I saw it a couple of months ago outside on the streets of Brooklyn, rusting. It broke my heart.

But I digress.
 
Holmeslice said:
Snorton74 said:
My 1982 300SD Turbo Diesel would beg to differ. German engineering and quality control is second to none.
Click to expand...

Wow... I had an '81 300SD Turbo for many years. Bought it off my Dad, who had it from new. It was absolutely perfect in every way and never gave me problems. Ever. (Except keeping the battery charged). Cost me $450.00 per month just to own with NYC Parking and insurance, and I only drove it about once every 2 months (thus the battery drain). Finally sold it a couple of years ago to some guy who promised me he'd take good care of it. I saw it a couple of months ago outside on the streets of Brooklyn, rusting. It broke my heart.

But I digress.
Click to expand...
ughgh, i sold my brother the first car i ever built myself, it always has about 6" of big gulp cups and marlboro packs on the floor and rust all over cause he never cleans it. i would steal it from his driveway if i had somewhere to hide it from him lol
 
German car quality of late has been quite variable with Volkswagen, Audi and Mercedes all having serious quality issues over the last decade or so. Caes in point, 7 new Jetta TDI s were purchased by my wife's coworkers, all between 2002 and 2004. Five cars were lemons right from new, huge and continuos problems.

The JD Power surveys over the years gives a good indication of how just how far the Germans slipped. Volkswagen seems to have turned things around, not sure about the others.

Ive read that the GM plants in Mexico have been shown to produce higher quality cars than those produced by GM plants in Canada and the US.

So Country of origin longer seems to be an automatic guarantee of quality level, good or bad.

On edit- Looks like the German manufacturers are still near the bottom of the JD Power, somehow I thought they had improved more than they have. The Mercedes Smart car looks to be junk as does the BMW mini.
I agree with the other posters, Germany once produced extremely high quality items, almost without exception, but that has all changed.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... -best-us/1

Glen
 
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