Land speed record links

You know this racer land speeder stuff is out of my league to pay me much attention.

I know that on THE Gravel, of which some sections is similar fine grain loose layer on tarmac hard pack, compliant suspension keeps grip attached more than solid. Yet there does seem a speed threshold where tire just clips tops of ripples and misses some/most the in betwen lessor ones, so maybe a mute feature in long run. There are few straight-ish sections 200-300 yd long I can top 100 a bit before blind turns to back off below 80 or so, or no reserves to dodge the routine hazards. Tires literally dissolve on this play so don't do it no more.

Weirdly after 95 mph I can't keep tires in smooth ruts, they self climb like a belt
on a crowned pulley to the peaks of center berm loose pile, but then acts like slalom skiing which I'm rather comfortable with. As soon as front gets some weight from throttle reduction >/\</><>/\]<*>*> all hell breaks loose, like air plane rubber in front instead of rear, whoohoo! I've yet to try radial vs bias on the berm climbing phenomena, but its most impressive in accelerating turns when bike wants climb inside berm slope instead of the outside slope like Dayton banks. There is a crash like wave that goes through chassis as steering suddenly switches on it own to straight steering, then seems to continue in suspended crashing inward state, till I back off to fight the front ruddering like normal bikes.
When I've tried this on fat race tire SV650 it get too unstable to attain berm climbing speeds/grip. Narrow tires seem way to go fast on loose stuff.

Before I went through Peels suspension and drive train if cargo was sticking way out on one side [2 ft chain saw] or a cover or even my jacket flapping in breeze, weave/wobble would onset till I backed off or an interval of favorable wind gusts settled a while. I'm Way more concerned with ground effects in Fast Low Leans, not top speeds. Trying to visualize active air surfaces/shapes to either dump lift or press tire down more. We know why stubby air plane racers or cycle dust bin type ain't around no more, tail end vortexes detach and suck em back and forth. Side winds a big bother too I hear. I figured out a sleek land speeder but likely would need a rule change to allow, so would just have to run as out law for fun or terror.

Here's my idea. (was my idea until I found out about Toms Land speed record).

17" rims and drop the suspension (& limit forks) all the way down till the bike is 3" off the ground. Remove the tank so I can lay on the featherbed fame rails & view under the top fork yoke (would require low tank & fuel pump or small seat tank). Long intake manifolds and possible ram air induction (lets hear some comments on the ram air - is it worth it?). Radical head with steep down draft ports (welded and reshaped with special valve gear). To many details on the head to cover now. Even with 80+ hp + all the above - 160mph seems out of site. Need more details on what can or can't be done to streamline and how Tom managed it.

Normal way of doing ram air requires big air 'box' which can add a few hp when way over the ton. Also there are formula's to size opening in stream liners to give some ram breathing but not add so much drag its nullified.
There are two other ways to get ram air benefits, one by funneling down to intake valve and 2nd by pressure waves set up flat plates or funnels in body shape. Viktor Schulenburger is worth searching up. New google can't find him no more and 'puter crash lost the sites I'd saved. Used rifling and ridges and twisted funnels to accelerate water/air flow for power generation.

With carb behind engine and seeing the way air splits around engine then Slaps back together right where carb opening is, might consider a divider plate at mid carb opening to direct the bi-flows into carb rather that just across its intake low pressure area. A 'cheater' oil catch tray might smooth under side flows. I'd make mine so it helped divide air around rear tire profile and help shield dense air from spokes stirring drag like some exercise bikes use for drag.

Rollie had a party inviting friends over to walk around him and move him for least air flow exposure, which he practiced till memorized for the real deal. He cut bars narrow to just allow steering or rather holding steady with hands inside body width. Maybe a 'cheater' periscope to allow head down sighting of lane line. Tight-ish non flapping suit too. I'd also duct tape major joints to limit parts displacement on get offs you just can't guarantee won't happen.

jseng1 said:

Need more details on what can or can't be done to streamline and how Tom managed it.

Click to expand...

JIm, this is what the AMA rulebook says

"Open class motorcycles do not permit streamlining. Streamlining is anything that has the perceptible purpose of directing, controlling, or limiting the airflow around the motorcycle and/or rider, or are placed to reduce aerodynamic drag (fenders excluded)."

This year they added the following clarifications

"Any aerodynamic aid at the rear of the motorcycle (including the riders seat/tail section), shall not extend past the most rearward edge of the rear tire, should not be higher than 5 inches above the lowest section of the top of the seat cushion or seat base if no cushion is used, nor shall it be wider than the rider as viewed from the rear. The rear wheel (excluding the tire) must remain visible at all times as viewed from the side.
If the seat/tail section does not meet the above standards, the Chief Technical Steward will determine its legality by observing the motorcycle and rider in a race position to determine if the seat/tail section is an aerodynamic aid.
The primary seat area of the motorcycle must be covered at all times."

That covers AMA events, which is only the BUB meet so far.

SCTA has the same rules for open class, just worded a little differently.

Ken

Lots of cool pictures of the bikes at BUB events from 2005 to 2010 here

http://www.bobssaltyblog.com/index.html

Ken

Just found this picture of Fred Eiker's 155 mph Norton at the Bonneville World Finals this year. There's a very small nitrous bottle tucked in there somewhere, under the seat, I think. He has to change it for every run. That's Fred on the left, in the AHRMA jacket.



Ken

If Fred can only get 155mph with a 870cc Nort on Nitrous. It doesn't look good for a 750 on gas.

Tom's Trident has significant streamlining if the below is true. Tail section & front fender down to the axels.

tricatcent said:

Even though he did take the frontal streamlining off they let him leave the rear part of his shell on as well as his rear wheel streamlining. He also had a very streamlined front hub... and his bike is built low. He uses narrow tires for less resistance.
Nigel

Click to expand...

Ken

Where is the AMA rule book?
Is a wrap around down to the axel ft fender allowed?
Can the speed record be set at Lake Mirage instead of Bonneville?
Must the entire R wheel be visible from the side?

Your bike once had the record at 130+
then surpassed by an XR 750
then surpassed by RPMs 750 Triumph
Correct?

jseng1 said:

Ken

Where is the AMA rule book?
Is a wrap around down to the axel ft fender allowed?
Can the speed record be set at Lake Mirage instead of Bonneville?
Must the entire R wheel be visible from the side?

Your bike once had the record at 130+
then surpassed by an XR 750
then surpassed by RPMs 750 Triumph
Correct?

Click to expand...

Rule book is at http://www.speedtrialsbybub.com/2010_event/r&r10.html

Both FIM and AMA rules are there. AMA records are at the end of the AMA rule book. Latest provisional records from 2010 meet are also on the site somewhere.

For 2010 the AMA rewrote the rules to better define the fender requirements for the open classes. It now reads

"Front fenders shall meet the following criteria: Wheel & tire is
visible for continuous 210 deg and not be lower than a horizontal
line through the axle. The perimeter of the fender not be more than
1.750 inches from the tire tread, and shall not flair over the fork
tubes by more than 2 inches overall.
Rear fenders shall not extend below the horizontal line of the rear
axle. An elongated seat may act as rear fender. Rear fender/seat
section shall not extend beyond the rear edge of the rear tire, and
shall not be lower that the top rim of the rear wheel."

Before this year, the rules were more ambiguous, and some bikes were allowed in the open classes based on the definition of fenders in the partially streamlined class. That might be what happened with Tom Mellor.

El Mirage and Bonneville have separate records. A record set at either one is a record only for that course. Only SCTA runs events at El MIrage. So far, AMA only runs events at Bonneville, the BUB meets.

You are correct about the records, sort of. My Norton set an SCTA record at 131.113 mph in the 750-M-PF class at the World Finals meet at Bonneville in 2001. That was with my racing partner riding. At the same meet I set records at 123.662 mph in the 750-M-PG class, and 124.751 mph in the 750-MPS-PF class. My partner was younger, slimmer, and better able to tuck in than I was. The 750-M-PF and 750-M-PG records were raised to 133.915 mph and 137.218 mph by Davey Camlin's Harley in 2003. He also raised the 750-MPS-PF record to 150.019 mph in 2004, a record that still stands. His records in 750-M-PF and 750-M-PG were raised slightly to 138.491 mph and 137.872 mph by a Guzzi in 2009.

That's with the SCTA. Tom Mellor's records are with AMA. I set the AMA record in 750-MPS-PG at 126.461 mph at the BUB Bonneville meet in 2006. That's the record that Tom blasted up to 180.317 mph in 2008. He also set the 750-M-PG record at 159.903 mph at the same meet, but I never held that record with AMA, only SCTA.

All perfectly clear, right?

FWIW M means modified (the open, or unstreamlined class), MPS means modified partially streamlined, PG is pushrod gas, and PF is pushrod fuel.
Ken

Jim,

if you are looking for a class to run your Norton, you could run it at the BUB event in the 750-M-PF class, the (unstreamlined) modified pushrod fuel class. The current record (AMA) is only 130.369 mph. You can run the fuel class on pretty much any fuel you want, including pump gas, and that's a speed that might be within reach. For some reason, Tom didn't run in that class, so the record isn't so astronomical.

If you wanted to run at an SCTA event, you could run 750-M-PG at Bonneville during Speed Week in August, or World Finals in September, against the existing 137.872 mph record. That's a little tougher, but not impossible. At El Mirage you'd have to run the 750-A-PG class, and the minimum for a record in that class is 134 mph.

Plenty of options.

Ken

I'll have to hand it to Tom for his accomplishment. And since the rules have changed he now has an advantage that will be hard if not impossible to beat. I once had a 750 cafe trident T160 (with 650 tank - see below). And I know just how fast those bikes can be. I spent 2 hours in jail because of that bike.

Does anyone have pics of Davey Camlin's Harley or the 138.491 mph Guzzi?

The fuel class is tempting because of what I learned with Achohol. And Lake mirage on gas would be my first try if I ever decide to go through with this (and I'm dealing with a reality check). What elevations are Lake Mirage and Bonneville?

El Mirage is at about 2,800 and Bonneville is about 5,000 maybe a little higher.

Looks like I'm in the market for a featherbed frame and a short stroke crank.

Any offers?

Jim

Fred sent me this picture of him at speed on his Norton this year at Bonneville. The timing slip is below it.





You can see the tiny nitrous bottle on the side. Next year he plans to be back with a bigger bottle and some other mods.

Ken