Kickstart Issues

D

DaveinCanada

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Oct 27, 2024
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Hi,

I've got a 73 Commando 850. For this first time in 30 years, I tried kickstarting it this weekend. I've done the electrical, new oil and lines, new fuel lines, cleaned carbs, touch of oil down the pistons, new plugs, new gear oil and few other things. When I went to kick start it, it took ALOT of leg power to push the arm down. I tried several times. I can here the pistons going and seeing oil start to flow up the line. When I took the spark plugs out, it was much easier to push the arm. Any suggestions why the kickstart is so hard?
 
DaveinCanada said:
Hi,

I've got a 73 Commando 850. For this first time in 30 years, I tried kickstarting it this weekend. I've done the electrical, new oil and lines, new fuel lines, cleaned carbs, touch of oil down the pistons, new plugs, new gear oil and few other things. When I went to kick start it, it took ALOT of leg power to push the arm down. I tried several times. I can here the pistons going and seeing oil start to flow up the line. When I took the spark plugs out, it was much easier to push the arm. Any suggestions why the kickstart is so hard?
Click to expand...
Are you experienced with kicking one. They are hard - supposed to be. If it has been sitting, the crankcase is probably full of oil (wet sump'd) which makes them harder still to kick. Drain the oil from the bottom of the engine, make sure there is oil in the tank, 1/2 way between the L and F. Do not add oil to the tank without being sure the sump is empty!
 
Commandos with good compression are pretty stiff to kick over. I got a kick back yesterday while kicking mine over from probably not bleeding the bowls enough before the kick and now I have another hematoma on the back of my calf again. You want to make sure you bleed the air out of the bowls with the bleeders and use the choke if you have one. If you are brand new to nortons,..... maybe put a soccer shin guard on backwards on your kicking leg because if your mix is lean, the kick back of the lever can be vicious.... o_O
 
o0norton0o said:
Commandos with good compression are pretty stiff to kick over. I got a kick back yesterday while kicking mine over from probably not bleeding the bowls enough before the kick and now I have another hematoma on the back of my calf again. You want to make sure you bleed the air out of the bowls with the bleeders and use the choke if you have one. If you are brand new to nortons,..... maybe put a soccer shin guard on backwards on your kicking leg because if your mix is lean, the kick back of the lever can be vicious.... o_O
Click to expand...
On my 5th or 6th try I popped by calf muscle. Felt like someone hit it with a baseball bat. One thing to note is that the kickstart arm doesn't spring back to position. I have to pull it back up to starting position.
 
o0norton0o said:
Commandos with good compression are pretty stiff to kick over. I got a kick back yesterday while kicking mine over from probably not bleeding the bowls enough before the kick and now I have another hematoma on the back of my calf again. You want to make sure you bleed the air out of the bowls with the bleeders and use the choke if you have one. If you are brand new to nortons,..... maybe put a soccer shin guard on backwards on your kicking leg because if your mix is lean, the kick back of the lever can be vicious.... o_O
marshg246 said:
Are you experienced with kicking one. They are hard - supposed to be. If it has been sitting, the crankcase is probably full of oil (wet sump'd) which makes them harder still to kick. Drain the oil from the bottom of the engine, make sure there is oil in the tank, 1/2 way between the L and F. Do not add oil to the tank without being sure the sump is empty!
Click to expand...
This is exactly what another Norton guy mentioned to me. Drain the sump pump.
Click to expand...
 
Seems like you haven't got the Norton KS knack (know how) and if the KS lever is not returning then you need to open the Gearbox cover to find out why it's not returning, as it should spring back to position after kicking, you might have to go further into your GB buy pulling the inner case off as well to find the problem.
A sump full of oil also makes kicking very hard and if you don't have the piston on top or just over compression also make kicking harder, I have seen so many YouTube videos of people trying to kick start their Nortons and getting it all wrong as well having the choke lever in the wrong position, they are so sad to watch, there is one video where a shop is showing someone how to KS a yellow Norton and he just got it all wrong as well using the choke the wrong way, he has no idea at all and he keeps flooding the carbs after every second kick, so sad to watch, not the bikes fault it won't start and when it did fire it was full of fuel.
My mates can't kick my Norton over, they just don't have the knack when they try, pretty funny watching them but.
 
DaveinCanada said:
On my 5th or 6th try I popped by calf muscle. Felt like someone hit it with a baseball bat. One thing to note is that the kickstart arm doesn't spring back to position. I have to pull it back up to starting position.
Click to expand...
Kickstart return spring broken, whilst inside the g/box change the layshaft ball race
 
When I had the original Norton kickstart lever fitted, I could stand on the kickstart with all my weight (80kg), and it would slowly move down...
That's the downside of high compression pistons though. A standard Commando will not be that hard. Use the kickstart to move the pistons just past TDC, then get the lever to about 10 o'clock and give it a serious kick. It's a balance between getting enough leverage on the kickstart and getting enough rotational speed to move the piston past TDC on the next stroke. My bike likes a little throttle and no choke, but this varies.
Oh, and try this on the center stand unless you are very good at balancing. Not the side stand though.
 
DaveinCanada said:
Hi,

I've got a 73 Commando 850. For this first time in 30 years, I tried kickstarting it this weekend. I've done the electrical, new oil and lines, new fuel lines, cleaned carbs, touch of oil down the pistons, new plugs, new gear oil and few other things. When I went to kick start it, it took ALOT of leg power to push the arm down. I tried several times. I can hear the pistons going and seeing oil start to flow up the line. When I took the spark plugs out, it was much easier to push the arm. Any suggestions why the kickstart is so hard?
Click to expand...
Dave,
All the comments here are in my opinion are what you should look for especially Greg saying to check that your sump is full of oil due to wet sumping and choke in the wrong position. I weigh only 130 lbs. and me kicking it over is a joke.There is a definite routine to get the motor in the correct position for starting it .Get that kick arm not returning problem fixed first and start enjoying your motorcycle as they are a joy to ride.
Mike
 
Hasn't been mentioned so... the RGM kickstart is much longer making kicking over much easier.
I'm under 80kg and start my 850 by kicking every time (10 times a week?) and I'm convinced it makes it easier. Also clears rearsets.
I have them on all three of my Nortons they will fit.
Cheers
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

KICKSTART, OUR OWN DESIGN, SWIVELS AT BASE

FOR DIMENSIONS OF ALL OUR KICKSTARTS PLEASE CLICK LINK BELOWhttps://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/rgmnorton/fs/pdf/kickstartdimensionspdf.pdfFOLDS NEATLY AWAY,
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

...oh, I see they are out of stock - lost the forging tools. Another problem to beset RGM - seems to be likely to be systemic?
 
When I first brought my 850 Norton new at 17 years old I was a skinny young lad of all 9 stone with chicken legs (coming up to 67 and I still have chicken legs lol), it took me a few weeks to learn the knack of kicking my Norton to life but once Mastered all good and yes the longer folding T160 kicker does make a big difference compared to the original kicker and it fold away from hitting the back of your leg.
 
SteveBorland said:
When I had the original Norton kickstart lever fitted, I could stand on the kickstart with all my weight (80kg), and it would slowly move down...
That's the downside of high compression pistons though. A standard Commando will not be that hard. Use the kickstart to move the pistons just past TDC, then get the lever to about 10 o'clock and give it a serious kick. It's a balance between getting enough leverage on the kickstart and getting enough rotational speed to move the piston past TDC on the next stroke. My bike likes a little throttle and no choke, but this varies.
Oh, and try this on the center stand unless you are very good at balancing. Not the side stand though.
Click to expand...
Make sure your center stand is fully functional (stand pivots in good order and bolts tight) Seen many commandos with worn and quite dodgy looking stands
 
robs ss said:
Hasn't been mentioned so... the RGM kickstart is much longer making kicking over much easier.
I'm under 80kg and start my 850 by kicking every time (10 times a week?) and I'm convinced it makes it easier. Also clears rearsets.
I have them on all three of my Nortons they will fit.
Cheers
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

KICKSTART, OUR OWN DESIGN, SWIVELS AT BASE

FOR DIMENSIONS OF ALL OUR KICKSTARTS PLEASE CLICK LINK BELOWhttps://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/rgmnorton/fs/pdf/kickstartdimensionspdf.pdfFOLDS NEATLY AWAY,
www.rgmnorton.co.uk

...oh, I see they are out of stock - lost the forging tools. Another problem to beset RGM - seems to be likely to be systemic?
Click to expand...
Out of stock for a considerable time now.

I agree they are a real improvement and I know people who are wishing to buy one as soon as they become available again.
 
ashman said:
When I first brought my 850 Norton new at 17 years old I was a skinny young lad of all 9 stone with chicken legs (coming up to 67 and I still have chicken legs lol), it took me a few weeks to learn the knack of kicking my Norton to life but once Mastered all good and yes the longer folding T160 kicker does make a big difference compared to the original kicker and it fold away from hitting the back of your leg.
Click to expand...
I believe I have the longer kicker with the folding arm.
 
kommando said:
T160 is correct.
Click to expand...
But with a custom made ‘boss’ to fit the Norton.

The lever assembly is currently out of stock. But the lever itself is in stock. Plus they have bare / unfinished bosses in stock, so anyone desperate enough could still buy what’s required and assemble a complete kick start assembly.

www.rgmnorton.co.uk

RGM FOLDING KICKSTART, BOSS ONLY, BARE

050179BR BARE BOSS
www.rgmnorton.co.uk
 
Last edited:
johnm said:
Out of stock for a considerable time now.

I agree they are a real improvement and I know people who are wishing to buy one as soon as they become available again.
Click to expand...
I have two new ones in stock. However, I do not warrant them as they have quality control issues - don't know if the ones I have are good, OK, or junk. They cost me $138.55 USD. I'll sell them for that + shipping - no returns.
 
YING said:
Dave,
All the comments here are in my opinion are what you should look for especially Greg saying to check that your sump is full of oil due to wet sumping and choke in the wrong position. I weigh only 130 lbs. and me kicking it over is a joke. There is a definite routine to get the motor in the correct position for starting it .Get that kick arm not returning problem fixed first and start enjoying your motorcycle as they are a joy to ride.
Mike
Click to expand...
Yes, please fix the kick starter first. With it not working right at some point it is likely to hurt you - broken foot/ankle/leg, launch over handlebars, etc.

Getting the engine just past compression and kicking means that the engine will spin almost one revolution before the next compression and normally will have the momentum to make it past that compression when it fires. If you're small or weak, that's the only way to go. If you're big and strong, then you can just kick and accomplish the same thing but there's a bigger chance of kickback so an ignition system with anti-kickback is a good idea.

Even with all my bionic parts and being 75, I simply kick stock bikes - no thought of engine position. But then, I am well more than two times heavier than @YING and my right leg is still strong.
 


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