John player colours

I have a hankering to paint up my tins to JPN colours as I believe was available on 74 Nortons.
My bike is a Feb 1974 ex Hi Rider. I have got myself a steel roadster tank, and some new side covers, so I would like to paint em up in the white Red & blue livery.
Is it correct that this scheme was available on the 74 year bikes, as well as some Mk111's?
If anyone has done their bikes in this scheme, can anyone assist with colour codes of the white base, the blue and red?
Best regards Richard

There was a thread about this quite recently: jpn-decals-t6987.html

Although the White-Blue-Red Roadster scheme is often referred to as "John Player" or "JPN", I don't think there's any actual evidence that the factory ever considered it to be so, as it is only described as "Blue Stripe finish" in the '74 brochure.

Not sure where you are but I used these European colours, which are close but not perfect to original tanks I've seen. Ford Diamond white, Vauxhall Atlantis blue and BMW Zinnobar red. You'll have to spend a lot of time getting the strip angles right and they do vary a lot on even the originals. One tip is that the horizontal stripe is not parallel with tank bottom. It needs to slope down at the rear about 1 in 40 otherwise it looks like the line goes up when viewed from any other position than side on. Stripe widths vary but should be about 2" for the blue and 5/16" the red with the same gap between the two. BTW mine doesn't, my error!

Thanx Keith,

Most helpful information, just what I was after! I am in Australia, so I will give the car colours a go at the local Glasurit paint place. BMW colour sounds familar, but we have not had Vauxall here for over 30 years, and Ford's are either Aussie Flacon or Korean buz boxes.
However much appreciate your details on the layout details. So the stripes need to angle down slightly on the horizontal, is this because the tanks sit slightly nose down. I also notice all the blue stripe bikes I have seen in pictures have the side cover stripes laying back horizontally to match the actual top of the side cover.

Still I am keen to do my 74 in this scheme, I have the bike in orange now, Mandarin with a Hi rider tank, so I will keep these as they are and do a complete set in the blue stripe scheme.

Cheers Richard

stockie1 said:

Thanx Keith,

Most helpful information, just what I was after! I am in Australia, so I will give the car colours a go at the local Glasurit paint place. BMW colour sounds familar, but we have not had Vauxall here for over 30 years, and Ford's are either Aussie Flacon or Korean buz boxes.
However much appreciate your details on the layout details. So the stripes need to angle down slightly on the horizontal, is this because the tanks sit slightly nose down. I also notice all the blue stripe bikes I have seen in pictures have the side cover stripes laying back horizontally to match the actual top of the side cover.

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I highly suggest you read the thread with the measurements.

color-t5734.html

So the stripes need to angle down slightly on the horizontal, is this because the tanks sit slightly nose down. I also notice all the blue stripe bikes I have seen in pictures have the side cover stripes laying back horizontally to match the actual top of the side cover.

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It's because the waisted rear of the tank (knee cutouts) gives the impression that the lines go up. Some 'originals' I've seen are overangled and none I've ever seen are the same. That link with an original tank is a good example of what you're trying to achieve. For the side covers, yes like the decals get it aligned with the top edge.

The colours had nothing to do with John Player, they were the colours of the British flag, described at the time as "white with navy stripe blue". They only had them on the Mk3s, not on the Mk2s or Mk2As, as is wrongly stated in "the essential Buyer's Guide, Norton Commando" by Peter Henshaw. And, no, there weren't any John Player Replica Mk3s either, apart from the mockup they built for the Mk3 brochure.

ZFD said:

They only had them on the Mk3s, not on the Mk2s or Mk2As

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I don't quite see how that could be true? As the 'Blue Stripe finish' is shown in the '74 brochure, which presumably would have been printed reasonably early-on in the '74 production period?

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... ochure.pdf

L.A.B. said:

ZFD said:

They only had them on the Mk3s, not on the Mk2s or Mk2As

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I don't quite see how that could be true? As the 'Blue Stripe finish' is shown in the '74 brochure, which presumably would have been printed reasonably early-on in the '74 production period?

http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Broch ... ochure.pdf

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There is no red stripe for the '74, (in the brochure). I've never seen this scheme in person.

ZFD said:

They only had them on the Mk3s, not on the Mk2s or Mk2As, as is wrongly stated in "the essential Buyer's Guide, Norton Commando" by Peter Henshaw.

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You are soooooo wrong. I purchased a Mk2a locally from the original owner in 1979. White, blue and red. The man let the machine degrade but because it was fairly new it took litte to being it up. The exhaust was rotted and the white tank had spider cracking on the surface but not so bad as to require repainting but oh so original.

This was a long time ago, but having to sell the bike due to a more powerful addiction, that color scheme served as such a strong mental image to bring me back out of a dark time.

My current 72 is red which is not original and covers the Fire Flake Blue. I thought of get it done in the WBR scheme but it is what it is and I appreciate it for what it is. The red is right for this bike.

Any others want to back me up on this? JPN? Probably not. Absolutely Blue and Red on White. The white was an extremely slight off white. Very Special, Very Fine.

I did not have the brochure, just the bike.

2Wheels said:

There is no red stripe for the '74, (in the brochure). I've never seen this scheme in person.

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No, I've never seen a thin blue stripe either, although if the brochure photo is blown up, the thin line looks more black than blue.

The MkII/IIA parts book refers to a "Dayglow White - Blue stripes" finish. But did they change their minds at some point during '74 and paint the thin stripe in red, or would they have waited a year before introducing it on the MkIII?


[Edit] Also it's worth noting that the '74 MkII/IIA "Dayglow White, Blue stripes" Roadster tank and sidecovers have exactly the same colour code number* 163 as the MkIII white/blue/red (listed as "white" for '75).

(The '74 tank and R/H sidecover have identical part numbers to the MkIII parts)

pvisseriii said:

Any others want to back me up on this? JPN? Probably not. Absolutely Blue and Red on White. The white was an extremely slight off white. Very Special, Very Fine.

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79x100 showed us this one

79x100 said:

I am absolutely 100% convinced that this bike was genuine and untouched.

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And wasn't the subject of the thread it was shown in, about another W/B/R '74 model?: one-those-ebay-ads-t5609.html
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1974 Norton Commando - John Players Special Edition. ANTIQUE, ORIGINAL & RUNNING.

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http://www.britcycle.com/bikes/SClark002.htm
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The new paint job is the same as the original,

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http://www.mcnews.com.au/ClassicsCustom ... do_850.htm


I think many of us will have seen enough examples of the White/Blue/Red colour scheme MkII/As to know they can't all be fakes!

Guys, the more example I see of this scheme, the more determined I am to make my feb 74 mk11 one of the strip brigade. So the origins were more patriotic to mother England at the time. That certainly makes sense, with all that was going on then?
Again to everyone that has chimed in, thank you for your help. What a great site!
Can I book mark these post for reference latter?

Cheers Richard

Well, I went to Sydney Auto Paints today, they are the local Glassurit people, and asked the guy casually about the car colour names that Keith provided. And what do you know, he looked them up and was able to show me proofs of the actual colour shades, I like the white, and the bue is really vibrant. So after spending a $114.00 I have enough base coat and some top notch MS clear to do the job. I was lucky with the clear, normally the good stuff is only sold in 4-litre lots for around $300.00, they had an open container so the boys decanted some for me, as you can guess 500mils is all I need for the tank and side covers in clear and they gave 250 of the blue & red colours.
Well now all I have to do is prep the tank, it is down to bare metal, but it needs some magic mud to smooth out a couple of imperfections. Then prepare my new fibreglass side covers, drill the holes to mount and make up a bracket for the top battery side panel. Oh and finish off rebuilding the engine etc. Will post up some porn when I finally get the tins done in a month or two. I would like to have it all done for October, for the ride to the MotoGP at Phillip Island. Well see?
Ordered the gold Norton logos so no excuses now!

Thanks guys for all the info on the blue stripe scheme.

Regards Richard

Glad you found the paint ok. If I was picky I'd say the red is probably too dark and needs more orange but I'm happy with it. Saw an original tank on a bike at weekend and that's what made me think. The blue was similar to mine. You'll have fun masking the stripes. I found it best to do the red first by marking back from the tank headstock opening until I was happy where the blue started. Don't overdo the droop front to rear as IMO some look awful. If you're using the transfers (water decals) make sure they are fully dry before you clear them and then just dust on a couple of dry coats to seal before applying any heavy coats.
You'll probably want to sand the stripes unless you plan on 8 coats of clear. I did three coats of the colour, one dryish and two wet. I used cellulose so your paint may differ in build. BTW masking the front of the side panels is a b***ger, getting a straight line etc. Best of luck.....

The tank in my avatar picture is in Ford Diamond White. In the UK it is the standard 'bright' white. As far as I can remember, my red line is Porsche 'Guards Red' but I've completely forgotten what the blue is. I wasn't looking for original so much as 'in the style of' and I think that this scheme looks best with strong contrasts.

The tank shapes vary a certain amount and it's certainly useful to be able to offer it up to the machine. As has been said, it's important not to follow the tank lower edge with the lining.

As has frequently been said, there is no evidence for the use of a John Player connection in the marketing but the colour scheme of the Mk11 JPNs must have been in the stylist's minds. That it was also a colour combination with the right associations in many ex-colonies (and France) probably didn't hurt. Perhaps we need to know why John Player chose red / white / blue for the No.10 brand ?

Over the years, I've known several original owners of Mk11As in this colour scheme.

Cheers Kieth,

Cold weathr in this neck of the woods right now. Most days are max of 15 to 18 c . So I will wait until we turn the corner of winter, a month should do it. But I can spend some time preping the tank and covers. Also right in the midle of an engine rebuild now, so I will get her mobile first. Have to ride the Shovelhead now, that is the only mobile bike in the shed.

Cheers Richard

P.S. thanks for all the tips and your experiences. In the past I have painted a 73 US version Trident and a mates 1970 US T120R so I am use to masking and stripes.

stockie1 said:

Cheers Kieth,

Cold weathr in this neck of the woods right now. Most days are max of 15 to 18 c

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COLD?? :shock: It's not much warmer than that here in the UK at the moment, and it's summertime! :wink: