Jim Schmidt

I always thought most old British bikes would spin the rear wheel before standing up due to the forward weight bias ? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX0rn_QosTg

Most impressive.

Old Atlases don't have forward weight bias.

The late Sir Eddie is shown powering down a straight lifting about 15-20 degree wheelie which means he was not having to back off with all mass on rear patch.


In general vintage would tend to spin tire rather than wheelie as only had power enough to wheelie or spin tire with low speed clutch drops. C'do's are hard to wheelie d/t low length and engine cannted forward, though plain Jane Combats will lift up front if held WOT till they run out of rpm tolerance hitting what feels like a 3rd piston power -after- 6800 rpm. This tendency to leap forward more than wheeelie was a big surprise and pleasure to me on Peel in the few events I let a new sports biker get close enough they tried to beat me form and open into the narrow turn space available. My 2" front lowered P!! dragster absolutely would not wheelie only leap forward or smoke rear. I could wheelie it if I was under 60 mph and rev'd over 8grand and dropped clutch to mostly take advantage of wheel inertia to react against an instant before traction limit reached and if careful on easing throttle back on could balance it down the road a ways. Not that fun to me as G forces are so low.

The cycle mags have taken show room bikes and tied down the front couple 2" and lost like over a sec in 1/4 mile trials. Of course shoots road leaning angle in the foot.

one my all time favorite sensation photo's - tire and header jets


moi on 7th day owning no name pre-Peel 5th time trial launch .25 sec after X-mass tree hit go go... Notice the rear tire profile about to spring a surprise.

My my my have you not been scolded to shame enough by the well meaning man moms to know to always fly low and slow or could hurt yourself, innocent bystanders or your C'do and other cars. Jim, the Fine flute porting and valve geometry man has sure elevated whats possible in our C'do lifetimes. If ya ain't nailed an over powered craft out in public - oh well best ya never do I hear. The old stuff could pull it off too Al.

In our dreams... that Kenny Dreer lived with...
can-the-commando-rolling-wheelies-t3520.html
commando-does-awesome-wheelies-t5667-15.html

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-NFkWZ3PCk&feature=related[/video]

Stone movie with induced on purpose crash for show too. Al note the decent handling. Norton Commando vs Kawasaki Z 900
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IyLovut45E#t=58[/video]

Hi
Watched Stone late last night first time in years and was good to see the Commando pulling all the wheelies everywhere

Burgs

"Watched Stone late last night first time in years and was good to see the Commando pulling all the wheelies everywhere "

Yep, and in Dukes of Hazard the Charger was able to jump bridges with no trouble at all. For some reason mine could never do that…

mike996 said:

"Watched Stone late last night first time in years and was good to see the Commando pulling all the wheelies everywhere "

Yep, and in Dukes of Hazard the Charger was able to jump bridges with no trouble at all. For some reason mine could never do that.

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For the cars, all you need are ramps.

For Commandos, all it takes is a lot of money stuffed into the engine.

Do ya really think the movie 750 had extra done to its engine? Even if it did, just proves even back then w/o the super duper nice stuff available now, it could well hold its own and then some against bigger displacement in line 4's. To pull wheelies on a wheelie resistance factory power C'do mainly just requires some rev up and clutch drop, which is covered up by the movie sound track over lays. I sure ain't no racer as all will instantly agree but do know best get-a-long is by keeping the front floating about level only touching front in one touch down bounce back to level on each snick up, if not so over powering rear traction its just spins on each shift. I had to change my ways on my first factory Combat, when entering hwy on a steep up hill on snicking second I would hear a squeche sound and the pull hesitiated, so thought clucth was slipping but finally realized it was just tire spin till bike caught up.

I seem to recall my friends 68-69 fast back 750 would lift the wheel a bit if the throttle was snapped open at the right time. It may have even been a Combat motor. My 74 Mk2a on the other hand would not. I am pretty sure there was a gear difference involved.

If backed off then snapped open as in the vid, my Yamaha 100 twinjet would wheelie quite well, esecially with a little shift of weight to the rear. Maico 490 does it if you are standing, leaning far foward, no snap necessary, any gear!
Still, it looks to be a good strong Norton.

Glen

I'd been off cycles for 25+ years while in Houston Texas, as nothing but nothing could statisfy like that P!! dragster I could catch air cresting the steeper freeway over passes, like ya see IOM doing. When I got here and went through a week with wife on Mower or Motorcycle decision w/o a place to work yet and last of moving funds to blow... I ended up with a well kept tuned ready to ride b/g IS tank Combat. Btw IS fiber tank weighs about same as steel Roadster tank.
On 7th day was first pulling hwy wheelies on slow rolling launches, till the rusty mufflers blew off, literally, which definitely opened up power band, so decided to get in line for the pre-race time trials and really started aderenlized tire heating burns outs and front lifting launches, till tire folded up and hurt me but protected bike completely thank goodness. Then 6 mo later after have run into THE Hinge trying to keep up with moderns pissed me off royally to point of deep disdain I'd fucked up on antique POS wasted money. This Combat leaked in 13 spots and smoking so on the eve to Y2K EOTHWAWKI, I decided to try to break it and sell off what was left. Its was upper 40'F so took 30-ish miles to get tires warmed before entering the more moutainess sections to find 2S cam and hogged out ports came on like 3rd piston ^after^ 6800, at which point the front lifted a few inches runing up into mid red zone in 1st and agian running up through 2nd but not enough to scare me on a full up/over wheelie to back off of. That impressed me more than the drag racing and it didn't break so was suck with a project to finish over 5 yr d/t finding many major items in bad shape. I had no idea of what I had in this no name Combat for a few weeks slowly breaking in over 1000 miles, then I took it to same place to try to break it as still sour taste from lack of performance compared to my SV650 and Codes 2001 Ninja and had my opinion completely reversed to my current realization of how corner crippled and acceleration limited+dangerous the buzz bomb balloon tires moderns are. With Schimd's, Canaga's, DynoDave's, Maney's, Comstock's, Christensen's, Drouin's, Carrillo's, Dreer's, Patton's, Davenport's and a bunch of famous vendor and public forum advice and part's Ms Peel may well put the UnApporachable back in the Norton name. I grantee it ain't me but Ms Peel that allows such performance, though my routine close calls and crisis have made me crazy enough to try to crash on purpose then recover in time.
Its totally opposite riding style, where I'm gritting teeth on others pensive I've gone in too fast to control, on Peel i'm pensive I've not blasted in fast enough to have energy enough to get to crashing on purpose states of better control.

I think that movie was made in NSW around the time that Ron Toombs was killed at Bathurst. Someone died while making the movie, so I have never watched it. I know that might sound silly however Ron's death had a lot of impact on me. I was talking to him about 3 minutes before his finish.

I think you would have to grab a big handful of throttle and pull hard on the bars to get a commando to stand up, also it happened as the bike was climbing which makes it easier. When you talk about the Maico, any two stroke is easy to stand up - the handling set-up is completely different, and the sharp power band helps.

my friends 750 combat interstate will pick its front wheel up easily and it is slightly detuned with a 1mm plate under the barrel,my stock 750 with single mikuni is much harder to get airborn the last time i weelied it was up test hill last year at Brooklands ,i read years ago in Bike magazine that the race scene in Stone was shot without closing off the roads dont know if that was true? the artical stated that permition was sought but the police said just go ahead and shoot it but be careful!! pre H&E days!!

Postby acotrel » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:07 am
I think that movie was made in NSW around the time that Ron Toombs was killed at Bathurst. Someone died while making the movie, so I have never watched it. I know that might sound silly however Ron's death had a lot of impact on me. I was talking to him about 3 minutes before his finish.

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This is a constant underlying mood with me too. During Peel's prime '03/04 I meet a lot of local and out of state riders. One Bob Grimen [sp] took me under wing to cruise around with and pointed out a turn his best buddy went over the railing on his RI joy ride and died. Bob had blogs of his world wide travels, mostly BMW's and warned me off sternly form trying to play with the angry 'local' squids on best 600cc sports bikes he joined up, telling me they'd been working up a sweat last 3 hr getting wilder and wilder to get ready for the really good/bad parts of the Ozarks Mt's. I even lied to my bud Wes I was too tired to ride so see ya later gater, but really didn't want to embrasses him or risk him on a factory '71 for the heats about to start. This turned out to be the scarest contests I'd been in, as these dudes were passing cars in sharp blinds and over crests, which I knew better so would get left behind for minutes at a time till I could see ahead to pass the car, yet within a minute or so I'd be right on their tails again, and holding back so not to press them into errors. This was one of the events that i found out how wheelie limited sports bikes are with Peel able to put down more power/acceleration while they reared up and disappeared beyond peripheral vision and became a solo ride for me w/o having to grit teeth waiting to see someone killed as no way could they keep up with the likes of Ms Peel. I let them pass me once as I slowed from over 130 to 90 d/t at end of 1/2 mile open so most of them went around in oncoming lane and only pure luck saving them. About a year later I was notified by his sister using Bob's email list he was killed on a mere commute on his BMW in Texas. Bob was about 5 yr older than me. He's one of the spirits that whispers in my ear before I tell him to shut TFU I know its a good day to die and nail it past fear. Just because a bike can wheelie ain't no measure of how well it can accelerate til running out of torque hp. What blew my mind was Peel could wheelie from a peg scrapping lean angle, which I term phase 3 handling, next energy state up from phase 2 front tire contact steering away from where you want it to go. Just need a bit lighter and lot mo power to do it even faster someday to shoot the flying finger at impending doom.

I don't have any ghosts haunting me, however I know the reality very well. All we can do is manage the risks appropriately and take care , that takes care of the likelihood - the rest is dumb luck.

Did ya know Jim Schmidt hot rods more than ole cycle's valve trains... http://www.jsengineering.net/http://www ... ering.net/

acotrel said:

I think you would have to grab a big handful of throttle and pull hard on the bars to get a commando to stand up, also it happened as the bike was climbing which makes it easier. When you talk about the Maico, any two stroke is easy to stand up - the handling set-up is completely different, and the sharp power band helps.

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I think there are much more fundamental differences between the 490 and a Commando than some hypothetical 2 stoke handling setup..... One being an open class MX bike and the other not, being one such example

My hotrod 850 Featherbed stands up the front wheel a fair bit if I let it, its shorter than a Commando and a lot lighter, when everything is working together (carbies, ignition and motor/gearbox) its not hard at all, the first time I lifted the front (after the build) it came straight up (I shit my self), and closed the trottle straight away, my friend Don who got me into Featherbed Nortons told me next time to keep the trottle open and control the wheelie so I did she stood straight up again, I throught it was going to flip but kept the trottle open to my surprise I found it to be well balanced, I even got to change up to 2nd gear while the front was up in the air (I was young and silly in them days).

One day I was out with my wife on the back, there is a cross road intersection that has a nice snooth hump in the middle where I always pull a wheelie but this time I didn't tell the wife about it when I cracked open the trottle when the front wheel was on the hump, it came up so quick all I seen was my wifes legs fling past my legs, lucky for her she was able to grab hold of my waist in time, I nealy lost her off the back of the Norton, next time she was waiting for it to happen, we got good at doing long wheelies from that intersection, but it does take it out of your bike mostly chains and sprockets and rear tyres, after 33 years that intersection is still good for the occasional big wheelie :wink:

Ashley

ashman said:

........ after 33 years that intersection is still good for the occasional big wheelie :wink:
Ashley

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great story Ash, thanks for sharing it, Cj