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It's a long way to 920 type(rary)

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by yves norton seeley, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Yves, are you sure that they are talking about a 1mm ‘fitted’ thickness (ie crushed)?

    Or is it 1mm thick before it’s crushed?

    Hope you find the missing oo from your whooo soon matey !!
     
  2. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    You right Jim, when I do something I do it good, even blowing the HG.
    Please don't feel offensed if I try to find a solution for the HG, if the new HG is better as the cooper, you can use it also, but so far there is no evidence that it will be better as the cooper one.
    Yves
     
  3. jseng1

    jseng1

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    You will be taking metal off a head that you can never put back. I do hope you find a better HG.

    I would keep your motor together if its working - if the gasket blows in the same place then look at the head/cyl surface. Or maybe a leak started at a thin area of your .6mm gasket and hot gasses melted it away (very rare).

    If you go with a crushable gasket then you should know how much its crushing so you can get the tight squish band you want. It will be harder to get that little bit of extra tight squish band HP (1mm is pushing it) with a crushable HG - beware pistons hitting the head.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  4. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Hi There,
    I road a few kms this WE, the 0.8mm cooper HG sames to old so far.
    I still try to find the reason why the 0.6mm HG blow?
    The only reason I find: The Maney cylinder have a bore of 81.00mm, the HG squish band is 81.4mm, the 0.6mm HG is 81.00mm, so there must be a 0.2mm part of the gasket not touching the head, can this be the problem??
    I buy HG from Jim Schmidt, if I remember weel they are 81.5mm or 81.6mm, and also buy some HG from Maney and they where 81.00.
    The 0.6 HG was made here in Belgium, I ask for a bore of 81.00mm, when I receive the HG I see that one of the faces was normal and the other face as be machined to ritch the tickness of 0.6mm, they probably start from a sheet of cooper from 1.00mm and grind it to 0.6mm.
    Tomorow I go to Slingen in Germany to meet the man from Elmeso, HG workshop, hope to find the solution there?
    I will also order a 0.6mm HG from Jim Schmidt
    BTW: last week I raise up the fork 8mm in the yokes, so the front of the bike is 8mm lower now, it makes a hudge difference in steering, mutch better in the corners, great!
    Keep you posted about my visit to Elmeso tomorow
    Yves
     
  5. jseng1

    jseng1

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    If they machined the gasket then there might have been a thin spot and that is where the gasket blew. There could have been a mistake fastening down such a thin piece of metal and trying to mill it to a perfect thickness.
     
  6. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Hi there,
    A long day, travelling to Solingen in Germany, 500 kms on the road, to meet Steven, the owner from Elmeso Reban, Elmeso is a small workshop with a hudge of knowledge about HG, Steven is a very fine man and he take all the time needed to explain me the secrets of the HG.
    I take a original 850 composite gasket with me, and he says it is good made, His opinion is to make a composite HG, but different problems appear: 1.00mm is the minimum tickness and I wish 0.6mm...
    The 1mm HG will crush 10%, what will says that when set the HG will be 0.9mm, to ritch the 1.1mm piston to head clerance I should need to mill 0.3mm from the head, not a big deal I think...
    Like the original HG, is proposal is nearly the same, a steel plate with composite on both faces, the difference with the original is the composite: His composite is made of glass fiber with graphyte and this is more neutral as the original and will beter wirstand the heat and pressure.
    Like on the original he will put a sreel ring around the bores the inside diameter will be 81.6 or 81.7mm to fit the 81.4mm from the squish band from my cylinder head, Steven says that the inside diameter will flat out to 81.4 once the head is on place and torque. To him there will not be any problem as long you keep 6mm gasket between the bore and bolt holes or pushrod tunnels, this will be ok but not for the oil return hole... the hole is 6mm, so he wish to reduce the hole to 4mm, the question is: will 4mm enough to drain the oil away??
    The second solution for the drain hole is to offset 2mm to the outside of the gasket and file the holes in the direction of the offset on the head and cylinder to ritch the gasket oil drain hole.
    The third solution is to make a outside drain tube, like Maney do on his stage 3 heads, but I never see one, so if someone as a pic from this, I will be very gratefull.
    The gaskets will be ready in 4 weeks from now. feel free tyo give me your valuable opinions about the HG story
    Thanks
    Yves
     
  7. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  8. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    BTW I just measured a Steve Maney copper head gasket and the oil drain hole is not 6mm, it is 5.1m (0.2"). And by recollection the drain hole in cast barrels is 4mm, I could check that but better to look at your own Maney barrels.
     
  9. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Hi Steve,
    I think I will go for the external oil drain, but where should I conect the tube on the cases?
    Thanks
    Yves
     
  10. storm42

    storm42 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Hi Yves,
    I have just been and took this pic, the pipe to the right of the breather block is the pipe from the head, hope this helps. The hole was already in my cases, i just screwed a airline connector into it and attached the pipe.

    Will you be at Chimay?, I have seen your bike there before and would like to see it again this year.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Yes I will be there, I will be also at Spa and Gedine
    See you there
    Yves
     
  12. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    The picture SteveA posted above is a Ron Wood/Axtell short stroke 750 head. Steve Maney did his pretty much the same way. These are pictures of a Maney Stage 3 head with the external oil return.

    Maney S3 Exhaust Port and Oil Drain 1200.jpg

    Maney S3 Top and Oil Drain 1200.jpg

    Ken
     
  13. storm42

    storm42 VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Nice one, I have booked for Spa and have a garage this year, see you there.

    Found this picture i took in 2015, i believe it is your bike.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Yes, it's my bike before I change the fuel tank, the discs for Fontana drums and the Norton forks for a Ceriani
     
  15. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Hi there,
    A lot of thanks to all of you that send me pics from the external oil line
    Yves
     
  16. SteveA

    SteveA VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Where Storm42 shows it is good and can be easy on any Maney cases. But I wonder if some effort might not make it possible to have it flow some oil onto the intermediate gear/cam chain?
     
  17. lcrken

    lcrken VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    This is how I routed the drain line on mine.

    Primary Mockup 1200.jpg

    Ken
     
  18. yves norton seeley

    yves norton seeley

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Hi Ken,
    It is not on the block off plate, why not?
    Yves
     
  19. SteveBorland

    SteveBorland

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Ah, I will be at Spa too, hopefully with my rather tatty 850. I'll keep an eye out for both Storm42 & Yves :)
     
  20. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Because Steve puts a hole there doesn’t he?
     
  21. baz

    baz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    That's how I have seen it done,the oil drain goes to the top of the timing side crankcase
     
    SteveA likes this.
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