Ikon spring ratings.

Last year, I changed the old tired looking Hagons for some Ikons.

Apart from looking a lot smarter the ride became harsh when riding on the back lanes which is where it spends a lot of time, so I contacted the supplier and they sent me some softer springs "normally supplied for a Triumph Bonneville" and the ride on bumpy roads is still poor..........why did I sell those Hagons for £15 GBP when they worked OK :evil: ? Even with these softer springs on the ride is poor, and I checked the static sag last night and to get it down to 5mm to 10mm, they have to be set on max pre-load.

I have read a lot of threads on here with people who are very happy with the Ikons and wondered if they have got and are using the standard springs (from Ikon) or whether they have a different spring rate fitted. The marking on the standard spring is I belive 231# whereas I now have 230# on. I no longer have the original springs for reference as I returned them.

Could I ask people who are using Ikons and who are happy with them to let me know what spring markings they have please, before I purchase a replacement set. I typically am carrying about 270lbs when riding....that's me and my pillion. Thanks.

It's odd that you describe the ride as harsh, but then say you have to use maximum pre load to get the sag to 5-10mm. Normally I'd expect a harsh ride to need less pre load.
If you do a lot of two up riding you might want to set up the sag with both of you on the bike and set it so you have about 30% of the travel taken up.

I remember reading once that Mike Hailwood came in from practice complaining the shocks were too hard and the mechanics softened them again and again and eventually they realised they were bottoming out and that was why they felt hard to Hailwood. They fixed the problem by putting stronger , not weaker springs on the shocks.


Possibly what's going on here?

"It's odd that you describe the ride as harsh, but then say you have to use maximum pre load to get the sag to 5-10mm. Normally I'd expect a harsh ride to need less pre load.'

Yes I would agree.

If I look up the Ikon website I see the 231 code is a progressive spring 95 to 174 lb/in

And the 230 is 84 to 146 lb/in.

But I also see they differ by 30 mm in free lenght. The 231 being shorter. To be honest I would need to sit down and look at the shock and think about it a bit but this could be where the pre load issue is coming from. Not sure about that but it is a bit strange they have diffent lenghts.

Why dont you have a look on the Ikon website at their definiton chart and see if these are compatable components for your shock.

I would have thought two up the 95 to 174 range would be ok and the 84 to 146 maybe a bit light two up.

The Ikon site suggest 112 lb/in for single rate springs and I couldnt find the recomended progressive spring rate, but looks like you are in the ball park rate wize. I would have a think about the lenght however.

We use about 70 to 80 lb springs on a featherbed race bike stripped to about 290 lbs plus a light rider. Despite what many people think you do not go for stiffer springs when racing. Unless you are keen on high sides.

I must congratulate you on your weight I would be pushing the 230 lb mark just me !!!!!!!

pommie john wrote;

It's odd that you describe the ride as harsh, but then say you have to use maximum pre load to get the sag to 5-10mm. Normally I'd expect a harsh ride to need less pre load.
If you do a lot of two up riding you might want to set up the sag with both of you on the bike and set it so you have about 30% of the travel taken up.

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they realised they were bottoming out and that was why they felt hard

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It was only last night that I looked at the static sag. If I need the springs on the highest pre-set to get the sag correct, I conclude that the springs aren't really appropriate if I'm two up with luggage. When I dropped the bike off the centre stand, there was only about 2 cm of travel left, and that was without me sitting on it. I think that you are correct and that the shockers are bottoming out.

But I am slightly reluctant to just go straight away and get the standard springs recommended by Ikon, as I have already said, they gave me a harsh ride before. Maybe I need to adjust the for static sag and for sag with myself and my pillion and go from there. I was just wondering what spring rating other happy users had on.

johnm wrote;

The Ikon site suggest 112 lb/in for single rate springs and I couldnt find the recomended progressive spring rate, but looks like you are in the ball park rate wize. I would have a think about the lenght however.

Click to expand...

I may email Ikon and see if they are of any help? I have looked at the spring information and didn't find it too enlightening.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts...it's much appreciated.

Don't forget that the standard Norton springs are 126 lbs/in each. This is because they are laid forward at an angle - not perpendicular to the ground. I once tried some 100lb Koni springs on my old Koni's and they were too soft for the Norton.

There are also a couple variety of air shocks that can vary rate to suit the loads. Extra spring length should help more on rough stuff than smooth, if not bottoming. Be aware of wheelie proneness with extra weight behind pilot.

Reggie said:

I may email Ikon and see if they are of any help? I have looked at the spring information and didn't find it too enlightening.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts...it's much appreciated.

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Don't hold your breath. I called them with a similar question for my race bike. the conversation went roughly like this:

"I'm using 112lb springs and they are too hard. What alternatives do you have?"
"What springs do you want?"
What do you think I need?"
We've got lots, which ones do you want?"

I've contacted Ikon, and they sent me a reply.

Using the 230 spring on the 76-1373 would be what we consider a solo riding spring or a spring for lighter riders being softer than either of our otherwise normal riding springs. Based on you and your pillion being 300lb I would be thinking that the normal spring rate would be right one for you. That is a code 204 in the same progressive rate style.[

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I can't see the "204" spring listed at their site,
http://www.ikonsuspension.com/v1.0/content/7610-76.html
but will make further enquiries and see if I can get some.

The only concern is that if I did have this spring rating on to start with, why did they give a harsh ride, but I don't know what the original springs were that were fitted as I no longer have them in my possession.
If I do change the springs and it looks as if I'll have to, I'll spend more time setting them up for the weight being carried.

Thanks for all of the help.

Reggie — it could be the compression damping. People who ride on smooth roads won't notice this. On the old Konis, you used to have to remove the spring, press the damper rod down fully and rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise, but maybe yours has an adjustable dial under the top mount. Try playing around with the damping and see if it has an effect.

Dave

Reggie said:

I can't see the "204" spring listed at their site,
http://www.ikonsuspension.com/v1.0/content/7610-76.html
but will make further enquiries and see if I can get some.

The only concern is that if I did have this spring rating on to start with, why did they give a harsh ride, but I don't know what the original springs were that were fitted as I no longer have them in my possession.
If I do change the springs and it looks as if I'll have to, I'll spend more time setting them up for the weight being carried.

Thanks for all of the help.

Click to expand...

The 204 is there on the list, two down from the 230. The 230 is 15-26 N/mm,, the 204 is stronger at 18-33 N/mm

daveh wrote;

On the old Konis, you used to have to remove the spring, press the damper rod down fully and rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise, but maybe yours has an adjustable dial under the top mount.

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I'm fairly sure that mine don't have rebound adjustment, but when I get the springs off, I'll try what you've said.

pommie john wrote;

The 204 is there on the list, two down from the 230.

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So it is I was looking down the wrong column.

Reggie said:

I'm fairly sure that mine don't have rebound adjustment, but when I get the springs off, I'll try what you've said.

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Reggie, here's the drill:
Remove the spring and everything off the chrome damper rod. Compress the rod fully until it locates in a valve in the bottom of the shock. You then turn the rod anti-clockwise (as looked at from the top downwards) to minimum damping and then turn the rod clockwise to set the damping. The damping adjuster does not click; you set it in revolutions.

I suggest that you count how many revolutions or part thereof it takes to reach minimum damping from your original setting. You then have a reference that you can return to if needed. If the damper rod will turn anti-clockwise from the original setting, then go to minimum (fully anti-clockwise), reassemble and ride those bumpy roads again to see if you notice a difference. Come back to the forum and let us know. If it feels too loose, you may have to firm up the damping a tad to get it right. I'm not going to bet that this is your problem but it's worth a try and it won't cost you anything!

Dave

Reggie said:

daveh wrote;

On the old Konis, you used to have to remove the spring, press the damper rod down fully and rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise, but maybe yours has an adjustable dial under the top mount.

Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure that mine don't have rebound adjustment, but when I get the springs off, I'll try what you've said.

Click to expand...

If they are IKON (7610?) shocks for a Commando and not a pair of old KONIs then they should have a damper adjuster below the top mounting eye which may be hidden under a rubber cover.

http://www.ikonsuspension.com/content/s ... ment.shtml

L.A.B. said:

Reggie said:

daveh wrote;

On the old Konis, you used to have to remove the spring, press the damper rod down fully and rotate clockwise or anti-clockwise, but maybe yours has an adjustable dial under the top mount.

Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure that mine don't have rebound adjustment, but when I get the springs off, I'll try what you've said.

Click to expand...

If they are IKON (7610?) shocks for a Commando and not a pair of old KONIs then they should have a damper adjuster below the top mounting eye which may be hidden under a rubber cover.

http://www.ikonsuspension.com/content/s ... ment.shtml

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I'm pretty sure the 76-1373 is an old Koni racing shock. They have damping that is adjusted as daveh said.

pommie john wrote;

I'm pretty sure the 76-1373 is an old Koni racing shock. They have damping that is adjusted as daveh said.

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76-1373 is the product number that I have.

LAB wrote;

If they are IKON (7610?) shocks for a Commando and not a pair of old KONIs then they should have a damper adjuster below the top mounting eye which may be hidden under a rubber cover.

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They are not this model and don't have the wheel, although I do have some old versions of this type for my Moto Guzzi project.

daveh wrote;

Remove the spring and everything off the chrome damper rod. Compress the rod fully until it locates in a valve in the bottom of the shock. You then turn the rod anti-clockwise (as looked at from the top downwards) to minimum damping and then turn the rod clockwise to set the damping.

Click to expand...

I have taken the spring off, and have been unable to take the top "eye" from the rod/shaft, and without doing this I am unable to take the top plastic washer and bump stop off :cry: :cry: Where I have held the rod/shaft in the vice to try and execute this, I have slightly marked it, but luckily this part of the shaft will remain away from the seals and under the bump stop......so as I said I'm stuck. Any ideas?

Reggie said:

76-1373 is the product number that I have.

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It looks as if IKON continued to use the old KONI shock number, however the IKON 76-1373 type does not appear to have any damping adjustment.

http://www.ikonsuspension.com/v1.0/cont ... ducts.html

Reggie, I have been to Cross Green a few time's delivering . The roads around there are great, i would suggest a solid rear end..no more swing arm /suspension problems :lol: or get your old girlings back :?:

LAB wrote;

the IKON 76-1373 type does not appear to have any damping adjustment.

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That is what I suspected. I think I'll just change to the 204 spring and spend more time checking the static and loaded sag to get the best pre-load setting for these dampers.

john robert bould wrote;

get your old girlings back

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I sold them to a friend who has yet to fit them to his 2nd Commando project, and so have not ruled this out :wink:

Thanks for all of the assistance.

Reggie — it's been a while since I took the Koni dampers apart, but I seem to remember clamping the damper rod in the soft jaws of the vice, and putting a rod through the eye of the top mount and giving the rod a sharp tap with a hammer. Otherwise, maybe a bit of heat will help you remove it. Just some suggestions. Maybe other people with Konis have had this problem?

Guess what I found in the shed? A pair of 204 Koni springs

They are too stiff for my bike, if you would like to swap them for yours, why don't we look into postage costs?

John