Hotting Up A MkIII

I use my race bike regularly , last Saturday was a track day with all moderns, was the only classic there.
This Sunday will be another race day with the Hamilton M/C Club winter series at Hampton Downs, following weekend will be another track day at Manfield Raceway

The only serious wear and tear at this stage is tyres and cush drive rubbers!!!
Rev limiter in the crank triggered ignition is set at 7500 rpm and it see's 7000 often.
Very reliable and easy to ride with a 5 speed box

Regards Mike

If you are worried about reliabilty, you can always use a set of these as they are designed for a Mk111 crankshaft.
Regards Mike

Brooking 850 said:

I use my race bike regularly , last Saturday was a track day with all moderns, was the only classic there.
This Sunday will be another race day with the Hamilton M/C Club winter series at Hampton Downs, following weekend will be another track day at Manfield Raceway

The only serious wear and tear at this stage is tyres and cush drive rubbers!!!
Rev limiter in the crank triggered ignition is set at 7500 rpm and it see's 7000 often.
Very reliable and easy to ride with a 5 speed box

Regards Mike

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Roll on Sunday, if its nice and dry should be a good day.
Got my new to me $700 motor to try out :mrgreen:

dennisgb said:

SteveA said:

I think you are smoking something fella....I track dayed one of these with 1 tooth smaller front, 1 tooth larger rear sprocket....

GSX-R750 ('96) 10.54 @ 133.5

No way is it the most potent 'modern' sports bike, but a Commando that can live with it would have the longevity of a dragonfly.....

It is not all going to be about building the motor either, but you need a transmission too.....

I am building a race motor with straight through exhaust and long inlets and I am going to struggle to get the numbers you guys think is 'streetable'....numbers that the works could get from a full house F750 racer....

Hop up by all means, but get real....sooner or later you will realise that plenty have been on the path before you, and most bear the scars....

If you want a drag racer get one, otherwise just enjoy what you got and get one nicely pepped up....

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A voice of reason. Sorry to rain on the parade but what you guys have been talking about is not a street bike and won't last long. Most of the parts in the drive train will be torn to shreds if you could even get close to the HP numbers your talking about. With a Mikuni no less...sorry. You could build a streetable sleeper but it would not be anything like what's being discussed here.

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Probably not. The Commando isn't ever going to come near modern bike performance standards regarding horse power. Norton gave the game away after the combat fiasco and detuned all future models. The 850's and later MkIII suffered even further hp output loss with the black filter box (and some believe the bean cans as well). Also it was heavier. Most discussion centres around hotting up the 750 motor and these days so much more is available to achieve this than 40 years ago. I've never read anything much about hotting up the MkIII. Seems it was/is not the Commando of choice to hot up but no reason why you can't. So I'm going to do it as best I can without badly affecting reliability. My aim is to disgrace my mate hobot by blowing his beloved peel away into the dust. Then I'll go Japo hunting. I know I am not going to win in a straight line, but including the twisties into the challenge course will make things rather interesting. If looks and sound can frighten the Japo poofter riders from drinking at the Mittagong Hotel, being beaten by a 40 year old bike will likely cause mental breakdown and subsequent departure from the area altogether. I am not a bad sort of chap, but Japo poofter riders are not high on my list of drinking mates, let alone tolerating them even consuming oxygen in the Southern Highlands.

Phil

If you are brave,and got faith in the commando's handling [sticky rubber] you will see off 50% of modern bikes.. Most are out for a joy ride, the real quick lads on R1's [gun fighters] etc will toy with you like a cat and mouse..more interested than challanged ,they will smile at the Norton. Then give the throttle 1/2 turn and vanish!

At the end of the day you dont hear R1 riders bragging they have just blown off a 40 year old Brit bike...their mates would laugh ...but a R1 rider saying he was blown away by a Norton.. :lol:

john robert bould said:

If you are brave,and got faith in the commando's handling [sticky rubber] you will see off 50% of modern bikes.. Most are out for a joy ride, the real quick lads on R1's [gun fighters] etc will toy with you like a cat and mouse..more interested than challanged ,they will smile at the Norton. Then give the throttle 1/2 turn and vanish!

At the end of the day you dont hear R1 riders bragging they have just blown off a 40 year old Brit bike...their mates would laugh ...but a R1 rider saying he was blown away by a Norton.. :lol:

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It is interesting to see the interest in non Norton machinery coming to the surface in this discussion. I am starting to think many in here may/may not even own a running Commando, let alone ride it very often, let alone every day. These "gun fighters" you speak of, who the hell are they? I've never even seen one in Mittagong. Are they "track day" specialists?

Most modern day Japo high performance motorcyclists I know quote track speeds and times. They simply can't use these useless things on public roads. Some of them that have tried are now flowers with a cross on the side of the road.

I don't like to think of or hear about any motorcyclist losing his life, but there are race bikes and road bikes, the two don't mix.

Phil

mikegray660 said:

the best way to make your norton faster, and in fact the rest of your bikes too, is to exercise and include a few more salads on the diet - :shock:

bet 90% of the grey breads here that go on and on about what their going to do to make there bike a hot rod (which would still be smoked by a new'ish 500cc bike) are dragging around a gut that would make ole santa proud and the strike fear into the owners of the all you can eat buffet

and just think, it will help you live longer too - to enjoy your bikes longer!

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I note your avatar does not show your fat gut, or non existence of.
I certainly don't have one.
Send in a photo and let us decide.

Phil

dennisgb said:

mikegray660 said:

bet 90% of the grey breads here that go on and on about what their going to do to make there bike a hot rod (which would still be smoked by a new'ish 500cc bike)

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I have a 2009 500cc parallel twin that will do circles around the Norton...but then it doesn't sound cool or look as nice Has 6 gears so your never looking for those missing ones Didn't cost me $10K to build the engine either...but Phil has something to prove...and I think he will do it too.

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Your Japo 500cc is a piece of crap. They had to keep adding gears to keep the little sucker on the boil. It started with the Suzuki Hustler with its 6 speed box.
Makes sense for a torque less piece of junk. But don't ever refer to it in discussion with a torquey big British twin like the Commando.
I don't really have anything to prove. I've owned pieces of crap like that, and an endless string of Commandos. I know which one is my preferred motorcycle.

Everyone has a choice of preference.
If yours is your wheezing little 500cc, I wouldn't be admitting it in here.

Phil

phil yates said:

Your Japo 500cc is a piece of crap. They had to keep adding gears to keep the little sucker on the boil. It started with the Suzuki Hustler with its 6 speed box. Makes sense for a torque less piece of junk. But don't ever refer to it in discussion with a torquey big British twin like the Commando.
I don't really have anything to prove. I've owned pieces of crap like that, and an endless string of Commandos. I know which one is my preferred motorcycle.

Everyone has a choice of preference.
If yours is your wheezing little 500cc, I wouldn't be admitting it in here.

Phil

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I get your hatred for these bikes. Your choice of words makes me laugh...quite of bit of truth in it. The 500cc is a parallel twin 4 stroke, not a whining wheezy 2 stroke like the Hutsler...but nothing like the Commando in terms of torque.

Your not talking about beating those guys with torque tho...it's the part of your plan that I don't understand. In a speed race there are too many moderns that will blow your doors off no matter how much money you put into the Commando.

You will look and sound awesome when they fly by you tho...so go for it.

Phil,

I started riding motorcycles in 1967. The first real bike I had was a 1966 BSA Hornet. I hotted it up big time. Had so much compression it would bust your leg if you didn't respect it and kick it over properly. It would burn up clutches and stretch chains with the best of them. Totally impractical and tempermental tho.

I've owned several British twins and a couple of big singles (BSA 441's). I have nothing but respect for British bikes and like I said before I love my Commando. I bought a new MKIII in 1976 and it was the only motorcycle I ever bought new.

I don't look at the "moderns" the same way, but as an engineer I respect the evolution and development that has gone on since the British motorcycle industry collapsed. If you look at the new Norton and Triumph's they have used the knowledge learned since then.

I believe it is important to preserve the history and mystique of the originals. There in nothing like the look, sound and feel of a Commando. It's also a respectable handling bike. I do not put it in a category to compete against modern bikes. I don't even think of it that way...it's not fair to look at a 40 year old motorcycle that way.

I look at anything with an engine with wonder...the engineer in me...yes there is some crap...but they all have a place and a purpose. Some people just want to learn how to ride, can't afford a classic or wouldn't want one because they might ruin it. Some people want to commute and get good fuel economy. I don't thumb my nose at anyone who likes the feel of the open road and the wind in their face, because that is what motorcycling is all about to me.

+1
there is always guys on forums who claim their brand or choice is the best (here its Norton of course) - and how their particular bike is the fastest/most powerful/capable to leap tall building etc etc - we all see it with the occasional newbie -like here-(and a few notable members who's crack supply must be endless)

i have 2 commando's currently (i've built them both myself, with of course some work done by our experts like Jim C ) and enjoy them but also realize their short comings and limitations - my 850 is stock but my 750 has 10:1 compression, headwork, a 2S cam (w/ reprofiled lifters etc) and mikuni VM's - its quicker than the 850 (not by as much as one would think) but still isn't going to set any speed records and thats fine

making a real hot rod norton by yourself great in my book, but realistically it ain't going to last long (and maybe thats OK with you) and at the end of the day it still will be an antiquated pushrod motor that not going to beat any modern bike - FACT -i admit it is fun though- but will require constant work & if your paying someone to make the bike for you (pathetic) rather than doing it your self your setting yourself up for lots of problems when it starts to implode

ok off to the gym - i know most here don't know what a gym is thinking i have misspelled it and am planning a visit to Jim C in the great northwest :mrgreen:

dennisgb said:

Phil,

.....

I look at anything with an engine with wonder...the engineer in me...yes there is some crap...but they all have a place and a purpose. Some people just want to learn how to ride, can't afford a classic or wouldn't want one because they might ruin it. Some people want to commute and get good fuel economy. I don't thumb my nose at anyone who likes the feel of the open road and the wind in their face, because that is what motorcycling is all about to me.

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mikegray660 said:

+1
i know most here don't know what a gym is thinking i have misspelled it and am planning a visit to Jim C in the great northwest :mrgreen:

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Just to be clear here, you mean Comnoz and not JimC, Correct?

pete.v said:

Since you don't/won't be working on these bike anyhow, I assume Jenny will be following close with a trailer?

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I think I understand why you need another. After listening to you here and if you want to keep riding, you might start thinking about a third unit and a 2 stall trailer for Jenny. Maybe an RV with a satalite dish to keep her occupied while you're BS'ing in the pub.

One thing you can say about Phil's threads and post, there is little fear of highjacking, it's the norm.

I retracted an earlier post out of fear of offending other than the intended, but it seem so relevent in this case that I shall re-post.

"Other than the obvious, if there was any question as to reasons why there should be a separate area for MKIII issues, I give you Phil Yates."

Phil, no offence but your posts are basically hypothetical and tends to delute, no.....polute, the overall content of the forum as a whole. IMHO

I'll tell you what is realistic is that whole 2 stall trailer thing with the RV and the satalite dish stuff.

I know of two gun fighters, on works in the local hard wear cabin, he has a GSX 1000rr and rides it hard 170 bhp, he was Speed gunned over 160mph,and got away with it, it was our local bike plod...after the bollicking he spent 1/2 talking bikes! as regards to riding my Three Norton's the last time was last year I was going to the Yearly bike meet....Having shown a Triumph rocket three clean heels 8) I meet the guy who turned out to be 70! he said he could have taken me any time...2.3 litre ...may by. :lol: I agree i dont ride as much as i did...I used to go out evey night on the Honda CBR1100XX black bird..and i met a Gunslinger ,the guy blow me away on a fast corner ..He just lay the Ducati over ,knee down full throttle and that was the last i saw of him... I can say 100% Britain as the Most,Fastest road riders in the world..
I think you dont live in the north west of england...theres plenty of fast bikes here..Devels Bridge, Cat in Fiddle, Matlock Bath

phil yates said:

john robert bould said:

If you are brave,and got faith in the commando's handling [sticky rubber] you will see off 50% of modern bikes.. Most are out for a joy ride, the real quick lads on R1's [gun fighters] etc will toy with you like a cat and mouse..more interested than challanged ,they will smile at the Norton. Then give the throttle 1/2 turn and vanish!

At the end of the day you dont hear R1 riders bragging they have just blown off a 40 year old Brit bike...their mates would laugh ...but a R1 rider saying he was blown away by a Norton.. :lol:

Click to expand...

It is interesting to see the interest in non Norton machinery coming to the surface in this discussion. I am starting to think many in here may/may not even own a running Commando, let alone ride it very often, let alone every day. These "gun fighters" you speak of, who the hell are they? I've never even seen one in Mittagong. Are they "track day" specialists?

Most modern day Japo high performance motorcyclists I know quote track speeds and times. They simply can't use these useless things on public roads. Some of them that have tried are now flowers with a cross on the side of the road.

I don't like to think of or hear about any motorcyclist losing his life, but there are race bikes and road bikes, the two don't mix.

Phil

Click to expand...

dennisgb said:

phil yates said:

Your Japo 500cc is a piece of crap. They had to keep adding gears to keep the little sucker on the boil. It started with the Suzuki Hustler with its 6 speed box. Makes sense for a torque less piece of junk. But don't ever refer to it in discussion with a torquey big British twin like the Commando.
I don't really have anything to prove. I've owned pieces of crap like that, and an endless string of Commandos. I know which one is my preferred motorcycle.

Everyone has a choice of preference.
If yours is your wheezing little 500cc, I wouldn't be admitting it in here.

Phil

Click to expand...

I get your hatred for these bikes. Your choice of words makes me laugh...quite of bit of truth in it. The 500cc is a parallel twin 4 stroke, not a whining wheezy 2 stroke like the Hutsler...but nothing like the Commando in terms of torque.

Your not talking about beating those guys with torque tho...it's the part of your plan that I don't understand. In a speed race there are too many moderns that will blow your doors off no matter how much money you put into the Commando.

You will look and sound awesome when they fly by you tho...so go for it.

Click to expand...

I don't actually have a hatred of Japanese bikes. But someone in here has to blow the Norton trumpet. I'm good at blowing trumpets. I know modern motorcycles are highly sophisticated and have amazing power output, more than you could ever wring out of a 1947 push rod engine. And I'm glad every man and his dog doesn't own a Commando or they wouldn't be so special at all. The wheezy noise I was referring to, related to the modern heavily suppressed exhaust note expelled by most (especially multi cylinder) modern motorcycles.

But there is something very special about a Norton, a Commando in particular for us in here. I love having guys come up and look at you as though you have just ridden in from their youth. It lifts their spirit just talking about the olden days when values were quite different. I know I wouldn't want to drive anything but a modern car because I remember what my Hillman Minx was like, bloody terrible. But I am not into old cars whereas some are.

Some years back with a mate who had a Commando S, we used to each Sunday morning do the ride north from Sydney up the Old Pacific Hwy like so many others and stop at the Mt White cafe. Everyone was dressed in expensive riding gear with very expensive machinery and they all seemed to be sitting around hoping they looked more impressive than the guy and bike next to them, and they all talked shit. I did it twice and never went again. A lot of these born again modern motorcyclists and born for the first time ones bore me fartless. Like their bikes, I find them completely characterless.

That's just me and to that end apart from simply the fun of the project, I'd like these guys to realise that the two wheeled tractor they think they are looking at, can slip around and away from them if they are not on the ball. That's about all. It's fun. Doesn't anybody have fun anymore? Or has that been regulated out of existence as well?

phil yates said:

Doesn't anybody have fun anymore? Or has that been regulated out of existence as well?

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I'm having fun.

For christ sake Phil, what time is it there? Don't you sleep or are you just coming in from the pub.

dennisgb said:

Phil,

I started riding motorcycles in 1967. The first real bike I had was a 1966 BSA Hornet. I hotted it up big time. Had so much compression it would bust your leg if you didn't respect it and kick it over properly. It would burn up clutches and stretch chains with the best of them. Totally impractical and tempermental tho.

I've owned several British twins and a couple of big singles (BSA 441's). I have nothing but respect for British bikes and like I said before I love my Commando. I bought a new MKIII in 1976 and it was the only motorcycle I ever bought new.

I don't look at the "moderns" the same way, but as an engineer I respect the evolution and development that has gone on since the British motorcycle industry collapsed. If you look at the new Norton and Triumph's they have used the knowledge learned since then.

I believe it is important to preserve the history and mystique of the originals. There in nothing like the look, sound and feel of a Commando. It's also a respectable handling bike. I do not put it in a category to compete against modern bikes. I don't even think of it that way...it's not fair to look at a 40 year old motorcycle that way.

I look at anything with an engine with wonder...the engineer in me...yes there is some crap...but they all have a place and a purpose. Some people just want to learn how to ride, can't afford a classic or wouldn't want one because they might ruin it. Some people want to commute and get good fuel economy. I don't thumb my nose at anyone who likes the feel of the open road and the wind in their face, because that is what motorcycling is all about to me.

Click to expand...

Now that is a very good post and I agree with all you've said bar one thing. The Commando is still capable of being an everyday bike in these modern times. Mine is just that, and I've owned lots and lots of different bikes. It does require a lot of care and attention, it's not a "set and forget" piece of kit, but it is a delight to ride and I use it everyday for general transport. Plus it looks special and sounds very special. I like machinery too, tractors, trucks, aeroplanes, some cars etc. But a lot of modern motorcycles I just find characterless and so similar in looks I walk straight past them in the street. Not all, Ducati's, Beemer's etc, even some Harley's I'll stop to check out. But the great majority of Japo bikes? Not so much.

Its cycle paradise mecca here with every sort of cycle and cycle pilot and group so have been able to compare pecking orders from supermotard, elite sports bikes and big bad baggers with 110 cid. If you are wiling to press your Commando to about 120 mph then can keep up with the majority of any of hot rods as that's about as fast as they dare take the opens before next series of turns and Cdo can pretty much accelerate enough to stay in the pack or soon catch up when they do use the power on tap. You will be using up the life of engine and drive train to try to hang with eager pilots on their elite moderns. If roads are wide and mostly straights then no way can a un-boosted Commando keep up after ~90 mph and no way can un-tammed isolastics handle the oscillating loads laid over on power like the Ducati example. Upping the final drive ratio pays back twice, one to stay in lower gears longer and two to hit higher top speeds within Cdo rpm tolerance. My greatest surprise was the huge advantage of Peel's against the mis guided engineering wisdom of making a over stiff linkage set up, so don't have to slow up like the poor fat tire cripples like that Ducati and others so looked up to by everyone else. pashaw. If you ain't got at least 70 hp on less than 350 lb cycle then don't expect to play with modern hot shots over 90 mph. My factory Combat was able to hang for 20 miles with 2013 GSRX's Aprilia's, Hyaburas group that would press luck accelerating in time to pass which left me the least amount of time and space to accelerate to pass or get left miles behind but Combat power was up to it and still would of got left behind as did not press past 110-ish to preserve engine but they all always pile up at turns so would be right on their tails again holding back speed not to hit THE Hinge very much hanging corners just as fast as they dared too. If they'd been in a contest though my un-tammed Combat would of been left in the dust after first real turn but Peel could lay down more power securely on leans I found it took most a mile of moderns going all out to 140+ to catch up again. No way can my wimpy 70hp/365 lb SV650 hang with moderns using their power as got left behind so far on first open I was all alone and just as corner crippled at they are so don't even consider asking if I can tag along, let alone till bored as became my mean matured habit on Peel, hoping it'd piss em off so they would try to max out uselessly on their wheelie and tire edge limited angry looking plastic bait insects. If ya don't have to assume full dragster posture to stay on your Commando up to the ton then forgetabout taking on elites with a quaint fragile antique.

pete.v said:

phil yates said:

Doesn't anybody have fun anymore? Or has that been regulated out of existence as well?

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I'm having fun.

For christ sake Phil, what time is it there? Don't you sleep or are you just coming in from the pub.

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Just got back from the pub, for more cash, then heading back again.
Had Japanese for dinner and can't sleep.
Another 50 schooners and I'll be out like a baby.