Hogslayer details anyone?

snail · Jan 23, 2016

I'm not sure if the triple engined bike ever ran in anger. The 7.8's were done on the twin engineed bike. I've got some stuff on another computer (I can post later) which says something like " heavily massaged atlas cranks" stock rods, cases etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the cranks had mallory in the cheeks as that was pretty common back then. I'm fairly sure they changed to a steel flywheel after an incident with a stock one

. Fuel pump was driven from the intermediate gear on one engine, mags were on the end of the cams.

If anyone can get in touch with TC or John Gregory I'd be very grateful. I've tried via F/B and email but I don't think these fine gents are particularly keen on computers.(I'm in Oz)

For those who remember him, I spoke to Johnny Munn this year about his nitro injected double from the late 70's. He mentioned 4S cams and Carillo rods amongst other things.

fiatfan · Jan 24, 2016

snail said:
I'm not sure if the triple engined bike ever ran in anger. The 7.8's were done on the twin engineed bike. I've got some stuff on another computer (I can post later) which says something like " heavily massaged atlas cranks" stock rods, cases etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the cranks had mallory in the cheeks as that was pretty common back then. I'm fairly sure they changed to a steel flywheel after an incident with a stock one . Fuel pump was driven from the intermediate gear on one engine, mags were on the end of the cams.

If anyone can get in touch with TC or John Gregory I'd be very grateful. I've tried via F/B and email but I don't think these fine gents are particularly keen on computers.(I'm in Oz)

For those who remember him, I spoke to Johnny Munn this year about his nitro injected double from the late 70's. He mentioned 4S cams and Carillo rods amongst other things.

About the fuel pump and magneto drive; I´ve seen at least 3 different layouts in pics, can´t tell which one´s the earlier or later version:
In one pic the fuel pump drive is on the end of the cam on the front engine, no magnetos visible.
Another pic shows the layout you describe.
Yet another version has the fuel pump drive off the intermediate gear, but then there´s just the standard points covers, no magnetos.
Tommy

snail · Jan 24, 2016

Yep, Tommy, you're quite right! Looks like they dumped the mags on the last incarnation. I was looking at the bike last year and that fact completely slipped my mind.

Brian

triumph2 · Jan 24, 2016

The pic of me on the Hogslayer, on page two of this thread, was at the INOA national rally in Ohio in 1984 IIRC and was long after it was last run in anger so likely in its final form? It looks like Joe Hunt magnetos with the fuel pump driven off the intermediate gear on the front engine.

snail · Jan 24, 2016

This is how it's on display at the moment. Actually, at Santa Pod last year.

Still reckon this one's prettier!

2 blowers and less nitro,my hazy memory says it ran 8.2's ?

o0norton0o · Jan 24, 2016

I have other images of other norton based DT bikes besides this bike which is the "triclops" (I have to look and see if any of the other 3 bikes is called the hogslayer...

sorry about the break in the pictures from the centerfold, and also the poor original quality of the pictures (back lit) didn't help when I tried to enhance their quality...

fiatfan · Jan 25, 2016

snail said:
This is how it's on display at the moment. Actually, at Santa Pod last year.

Still reckon this one's prettier!

2 blowers and less nitro,my hazy memory says it ran 8.2's ?

Oooh yes, the Pegasus! Had forgotten that one, but that wasn´t Sunset Motors right? Looks good though.
Tommy

snail · Jan 25, 2016

Pegasus is a UK bike, brilliant piece of engineering. It's in the same museum as Hogslayer; was rebuilt after the disastrous fire they had there. There was talk of firing the two of them up at some point in the future.

Keith1069 · Jan 25, 2016

Pegasus is a UK bike, brilliant piece of engineering. It's in the same museum as Hogslayer; was rebuilt after the disastrous fire they had there. There was talk of firing the two of them up at some point in the future.

Now that would be something and I'm sure a few of us would pay good money to hear and see that + The Hobbit which still runs though detuned now. Its been 43 years since TC ran here, well I think it was 73, so long ago. No I found these pics and reference to a 78 trip so he was over at least 3 times.
Danny Johnson and TC 3500cc v 1700cc ? He beat Johnson 2 out of 3 and then 3 of 3 a week or two later.
http://www.theaccelerationarchive.co.uk ... MC-109.jpg
http://www.theaccelerationarchive.co.uk ... MC-104.jpg

snail · Jan 25, 2016

I was there for the 78 visit!

Chris · Jan 25, 2016

Ha

Cant believe it

Just walked in the door & picked up my copy of Classic Bike & both Pegasus & Hogslayer are featured.

Chris

Dances with Shrapnel · Jan 25, 2016

http://www.theaccelerationarchive.co.uk/alan_currans/motorcycles/page_01/1-MC-109.jpg

The tall fellow in the red jacket and sun glasses standing behind TC Christianson is John Gregory, the designer, builder and tuner of the Hogslayer.

jseng1 · Jan 25, 2016

fiatfan said:
...how the hell did they stop the cylinders from taking off... 150+ BHP each!
Tommy

Fred Eikers land speed 920 on Nitrous (below) puts out 150 hp. It spun the R wheel at 135mph on the Bonneville salt and crashed but I think its on the street now (with nitrous). It has a solid crank, longer steel rods and lighter pistons to help keep it together - but the motor is holding up fine.

Danno · Jan 25, 2016

triumph2 said:
Danno said:

I'm sure there were forged pistons and steel rods in there, titanium being only in Russian submarine hulls at the time. I would also assume special (one-piece?) cranks, strengthened cases, and steel thread inserts to hold the barrels down.

Camped next to those guys at a National Rally in Ohio years ago. Party!

Click to expand...

I remember that rally well When I asked TC if I could have my pic taken on the Hogslayer he grinned and said," You won't try to start it will you?"

That's my tent and my buddy Steve's black/red Interstate in the background.

Danno · Jan 25, 2016

fiatfan said:
Thanks for the link Chris. Danno, sorry to disappoint you, but I read through the article in the link, had to write out a piece of it since it wasn´t possible to copy;

"Both engines are so close to stock that it´s hard to believe. Bore and stroke remain stock, with the addition of 10.0 to 1 pistons for a boost in the compression department. The flywheel have been shaved off 4 pounds, but only to compensate for the added weight of the extra gears needed to connect the engines together. The two engines are connected by a double row primary chain with an idler gear to utilized to take up the slack. They also receive lubrication for each pass by – what else? – the stock chain oiler!
The cams are over the counter items ground by Sunset Motors, and the valves are stock."

I just say pretty impressive, who knew these motors could take that amount of power.... :shock:
Tommy

All the folks who have grenaded engines using stock parts with a lot less than 150 bhp would be real surprised to hear that. NEVER believe what some racer TELLS you is inside their engines unless you've seen the insides of those engines.

Rohan · Jan 25, 2016

jseng1 said:
but the motor is holding up fine.

That motor is also of the 850 type, with though-bolted cylinders....

The 750's did have a bit of a reputation of throwing off cylinders, so thats an interesting question.
You see some Triumph drag bikes with throughbolted bars/braces top and bottom of the motor to keep the whole plot intact,
so this drama isn't just confined to any one make or model of bike.
Soon as you start making serious hp, the stock parts just weren't designed or tested to survive that, for long.

o0norton0o · Jan 25, 2016

Danno said:
NEVER believe what some racer TELLS you is inside their engines unless you've seen the insides of those engines.

Ha ha, that's so true... I used to be a member of a pit crew for dirt track car racing. Each class of race cars had limitations on displacement and the enhancement of certain mechanical features such as roller rockers or roller followers amongst other things. IF you raced your car at my home track, anyone (including fans I believe) could "pay" the officials to do an inspection tear down of your head. As I recall, it cost $300. which was payed to the car owner. Race track officials would then unbolt your heads and measure your displacement and inspect your valve train, then make a decision on whether you were legal or not. A car owner could refuse to allow a tear down challenge, but then he would be disqualified from his race.

I've seen a racer give up a win on the last race of the year rather than be torn down and inspected. Refusing the tear down cost him a spot in the season's track championship. He took 4th instead of 3rd. My crew chief said that he's sure that the guy is a cheater. No racer wants his engine torn down if it's running well, but if you refuse a tear down challenge, the thought is that you probably have some modifications that you aren't allowed to have for the class you are racing in... Never believe what a racer tells you... until you see it yourself...

solarmoose · Jan 25, 2016

I ordered the DVD from http://www.power-barn.com and it arrived today. Just finished watching it. Wow. I had no
idea the Hogslayer was so successful. What an achievement. The video is well done and both TC and John are
fun to listen to. It is well worth watching. Going to invite my Norton and bike friends over to watch it again.
Have new respect for my Nortons.

fiatfan · Jan 25, 2016

Danno said:
fiatfan said:

Thanks for the link Chris. Danno, sorry to disappoint you, but I read through the article in the link, had to write out a piece of it since it wasn´t possible to copy;

"Both engines are so close to stock that it´s hard to believe. Bore and stroke remain stock, with the addition of 10.0 to 1 pistons for a boost in the compression department. The flywheel have been shaved off 4 pounds, but only to compensate for the added weight of the extra gears needed to connect the engines together. The two engines are connected by a double row primary chain with an idler gear to utilized to take up the slack. They also receive lubrication for each pass by – what else? – the stock chain oiler!
The cams are over the counter items ground by Sunset Motors, and the valves are stock."

I just say pretty impressive, who knew these motors could take that amount of power.... :shock:
Tommy

Click to expand...

All the folks who have grenaded engines using stock parts with a lot less than 150 bhp would be real surprised to hear that. NEVER believe what some racer TELLS you is inside their engines unless you've seen the insides of those engines.

I agree, just quoted parts of that article. Considering John Gregory´s abilities as a mechanic and inventor, one wouldn´t be too surprised if he had done some inventive work inside their engines as well. But it seems there isn´t any records of the interior? One should also keep in mind that if Sunset Motors did have support (substantial or not) from the Norton factory, they would probably like the "facts" that the engines were almost stock inside...

grandpaul · Jan 26, 2016

Danno said:
All the folks who have grenaded engines using stock parts with a lot less than 150 bhp would be real surprised to hear that. NEVER believe what some racer TELLS you is inside their engines unless you've seen the insides of those engines.

YAHTZEE!

Nortons with 70HP tend to explode stock cranks quite regularly. Any serious Norton builder in that neighborhood has an expensive crank and light rods at a MINIMUM.